Prove the Practice of Worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Hark]

I believe in the Triune God and that the Holy Spirit is One of the 3 Persons of this One God, BUT... although the Holy Spirit is God, there is no scripture teaching to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. Some web sites has scriptural reference for that line in the 381 A.D, Nicene creed but Genesis 1:2 doesn't really teach nor prove that line as having to do about that kind of practice in worship.

is there any scripture proving the latter for why we do not find any scripture teaching that practice? Yes. Look at how we will be judged.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If the latter part of verse 23 in the bold, had not existed, there would be no reproof. That reproof is when you stop honoring the Son, you are no longer honoring the Father. That means there is no honoring the Holy Spirit if you wish to honor God the Father. If you want to honor the Father, then you have to only honor the Son. Discern with Him now because John 5:22 cites this on how God will judge us.

What is the big deal? It has everything to do with the falling away from the faith. A brother in India online had said that he did not used to believe that the Holy Spirit did those manifestations today as He did back then. He began to share that on a Pentecost Sunday on the calendar, his church held a service honoring the Holy Spirit that day. Then he described that something like liquid nitrogen seeping into his skull and the next thing he knew he was confessing against his will an apology out loud to the Holy Spirit for not believing He did those manifestations like He did in the early church days any more.

That was not the Holy Spirit. It fails the test of the spirits when he conveyed a spirit coming into him when the Holy Spirit has been in him since salvation.

And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets, meaning there is no loss of self control here to be confessing against his will an apology to the Holy Spirit. God would have a sincere apology rather than a coerced one against somebody's will.

You may discern this in other supernatural phenomenon as claiming to be of the Holy Spirit when they lose self control like slain in the spirit & holy laughter movement, Pensacola's Outpouring, and Toronto's Blessings, and even seeking after another baptism of the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues.

So why would God allow these strong delusion to occur sometimes when honoring or focusing on the Holy Spirit in worship? Because they did not heed His words in how they were to approach God the Father by in anything, be it fellowship, prayer, or worship and that is by the only way provided, the Son.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Again, Jesus explained how climbing up another way leads believers astray to follow the voice of stranger's, which tongues for private use is.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Therefore the Holy Spirit is not the door. Jesus is. The fact that by climbing up another way is how they wind up following the voice of strangers is proof.

Cause and effect. Jesus meant what He has said for why God allow the strong delusion to come because they climbed up another way to the Father.

Antichrist means "instead of Christ" as applied in scripture and to be more precise, "instead of the Son". The spirits of the antichrists are sometimes allowed to lead others astray when the focus in worship is not on the Son in honoring Him in order to honor God the Father.

Also the doctrine of the Trinity cannot be applied to worship when God the Father is not honored by worshipping the "Trinity", but only honoring the Son.

 

[Hark]

If anyone judged slain in the spirit, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusade, and holy laughter movement are not of God, then ask yourself why they address the Holy Spirit in worship, but the devil responded where people lose self control & fall backwards?

Even that apostate calling of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues had believers falling backwards in seeking it for why that is not coming with interpretation and thus assumed for private use because it is not God's gift of tongues but the pagan's supernatural tongue, gained for believing the lie that you can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after that sign of tongues.

Even one reported from India that he felt the Holy Spirit entering into him like liquid nitrogen when they were honoring the Holy Spirit that calendar day of Pentecost and he began confessing an apology ( against his will ) to the Holy Spirit for not believing He did those dramatic manifestation as He did in the early church days. I discern with Him that God would prefer a willing apology and a sincere confession and since the Holy Spirit would never draw attention to Himself in worship, but testify of the Son to glorify the Son, and He does that through us ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:14 ) then that also has to include worship and not just outward ministry.

Jesus warned that climbing up another way will lead believers astray in following a stranger's voice in John 10:1-5 so this broadening the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the father & the Son is a work of iniquity ( Matthew 7:13-27 ) for why many believers and churches are falling and so the solution is to strive ye to enter thru that straight gate ( Luke 13:24-30 ) to avoid being left behind. By only honoring the Son in worship in order to honor God the Father ( reread the OP for scriptures for why again ) is how one avoid that iniquity in worship.

 

[RiJoRi]

If anyone judged slain in the spirit, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's healing Crusade, and holy laughter movement are not of God, then ask yourself why they address the Holy Spirit in worship, but the devil responded where people lose self control & fall backwards?

Even that apostate calling of another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues had believers falling backwards in seeking it for why that is not coming with interpretation and thus assumed for private use because it is not God's gift of tongues but the pagan's supernatural tongue, gained for believing the lie that you can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation after that sign of tongues.

Even one reported from India that he felt the Holy Spirit entering into him like liquid nitrogen when they were honoring the Holy Spirit that calendar day of Pentecost and he began confessing an apology ( against his will ) to the Holy Spirit for not believing He did those dramatic manifestation as He did in the early church days. I discern with Him that God would prefer a willing apology and a sincere confession and since the Holy Spirit would never draw attention to Himself in worship, but testify of the Son to glorify the Son, and He does that through us ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:14 ) then that also has to include worship and not just outward ministry.

Jesus warned that climbing up another way will lead believers astray in following a stranger's voice in John 10:1-5 so this broadening the way in the worship place by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the father & the Son is a work of iniquity ( Matthew 7:13-27 ) for why many believers and churches are falling and so the solution is to strive ye to enter thru that straight gate ( Luke 13:24-30 ) to avoid being left behind. By only honoring the Son in worship in order to honor God the Father ( reread the OP for scriptures for why again ) is how one avoid that iniquity in worship.

Your post brings back some sad memories. My wife and I were attending an indy Pentecostal church which became enamored of the Pensacola thing. I started looking into the matter, and the more I looked, the less I liked. We prayed and prayed, and finally it struck me: these phenomena had nothing to do with the God of the Bible.

I started asking questions of the pastor, who did not answer them. We tried talking to friends, but they just couldn't see. Long story short, we wound up leaving after an Easter Sunday when the pastor told the congregation that "Jesus laid aside His diety when He became a man."

--Rich

 

[Hark]

Your post brings back some sad memories. My wife and I were attending an indy Pentecostal church which became enamored of the Pensacola thing. I started looking into the matter, and the more I looked, the less I liked. We prayed and prayed, and finally it struck me: these phenomena had nothing to do with the God of the Bible.

I started asking questions of the pastor, who did not answer them. We tried talking to friends, but they just couldn't see. Long story short, we wound up leaving after an Easter Sunday when the pastor told the congregation that "Jesus laid aside His diety when He became a man."

--Rich

Thank you for sharing.

Can you recall if any of them used Romans 8:26-27 as proof that the Spirit can use tongues for private use by uttering His intercessions in gibberish nonsense for why it does not come with interpretation as some modern bibles seems to imply?

 

[Hark]

You can read this book online here; The Early Years of the Tongues Movement

It is because they are not discerning the hype generated from these movements to sell the apostasy of believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation, to that which exposes it as not of Him at all by those phenomenon is why they should conclude by Jesus's own words that no evil tree can produce a good fruit & no good tree can produce an evil fruit. It's conclusion has to be, it is all bad, thus not of Him.

 

[RiJoRi]

Thank you for sharing.

Can you recall if any of them used Romans 8:26-27 as proof that the Spirit can use tongues... ?

No, afraid not. Goodness! It's been over 20 years since we left! Tempus fugit, for sure!

 

[Hark]

No, afraid not. Goodness! It's been over 20 years since we left! Tempus fugit, for sure!

That's okay. Just wondering. Maybe the Lord will bring it to remembrance later on to help you see why and how come modern bibles support such an apostasy.

 

[Saxon]

Your post brings back some sad memories. My wife and I were attending an indy Pentecostal church which became enamored of the Pensacola thing. I started looking into the matter, and the more I looked, the less I liked. We prayed and prayed, and finally it struck me: these phenomena had nothing to do with the God of the Bible.

I started asking questions of the pastor, who did not answer them. We tried talking to friends, but they just couldn't see. Long story short, we wound up leaving after an Easter Sunday when the pastor told the congregation that "Jesus laid aside His diety when He became a man."

--Rich

That was an unfortunate experience for you and your wife. The statement as you have written it could lead one to think that he meant that Jesus stopped being divine (God) but that is not the case as you obviously know. That was a bad choice of words. I would say that Jesus, being God, becoming a man, lived as a man not displaying his nature, that of God. I also think to say that Jesus laid aside His deity when He became a man is a reasonable statement if one keeps in mind the context, God the son became a man and restricted himself to only what a man could do. Jesus did state that it wasn't him that did the works, but the Father within him. See the following versions of Philippians 2:7.

KJ21
but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
ASV
but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men;
AMP
but emptied Himself [without renouncing or diminishing His deity, but only temporarily giving up the outward expression of divine equality and His rightful dignity] by assuming the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men [He became completely human but was without sin, being fully God and fully man].
AMPC
But stripped Himself [of all privileges and rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being.
BRG
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
CSB
Instead he emptied himself by assuming the form of a servant, taking on the likeness of humanity. And when he had come as a man,
CEB
But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human,
CJB
On the contrary, he emptied himself, in that he took the form of a slave by becoming like human beings are. And when he appeared as a human being,
CEV
Instead he gave up everything and became a slave, when he became like one of us.
DARBY
but emptied himself, taking a bondman's form, taking his place in [the] likeness of men;
DLNT
but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a slave, having come in the likeness of humans. And having been found as a man in outward-appearance,
DRA
But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
ERV
Instead, he gave up everything, even his place with God. He accepted the role of a servant, appearing in human form. During his life as a man,
EHV
but he emptied himself by taking the nature of a servant. When he was born in human likeness, and his appearance was like that of any other man,
ESV
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
ESVUK
but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
EXB
But he ·gave up his place with God and made himself nothing [L emptied himself]. He ·became like [L took the form of] a ·servant [slave; bondservant] and was born ·as a man [L in the likeness of humanity/men].
GNV
But he made himself of no reputation, and took on him the form of a servant, and was made like unto men, and was found in shape as a man.
GW
Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.
GNT
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness.
HCSB
Instead He emptied Himself by assuming the form of a slave, taking on the likeness of men. And when He had come as a man in His external form,
ICB
He gave up his place with God and made himself nothing. He was born as a man and became like a servant.
ISV
Instead, poured out in emptiness, a servant’s form did he possess, a mortal man becoming. In human form he chose to be,
PHILLIPS
Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be. For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal. That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus “every knee shall bow”, whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, “every tongue shall confess” that Jesus Christ” is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
JUB
but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, made in the likeness of men,

I do believe that you were robbed by that bad choice of words and no explanation.

 

[Hark]

That was an unfortunate experience for you and your wife. The statement as you have written it could lead one to think that he meant that Jesus stopped being divine (God) but that is not the case as you obviously know. That was a bad choice of words. I would say that Jesus, being God, becoming a man, lived as a man not displaying his nature, that of God. I also think to say that Jesus laid aside His deity when He became a man is a reasonable statement if one keeps in mind the context, God the son became a man and restricted himself to only what a man could do. Jesus did state that it wasn't him that did the works, but the Father within him. See the following versions of Philippians 2:7.

I do believe that you were robbed by that bad choice of words and no explanation.

I agree that there may be a misunderstanding in regards to that incident, but apostasy is still present when at any time the focus is on the Holy Spirit in worship or in prayer when the indwelling Holy Spirit would have that focus on the Son in honoring Him as the only way to come to God the Father by in worship, prayer, & fellowship.

John 14:1-6 is about being ready to be raptured as Jesus is the only way in coming to God the Father by as we live our reconciled lives down here thru Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7:13-14 testify to this iniquity of broadening the way of coming to God the Father other than by the Son and Luke 13:24-30 warns believers to strive to enter the straight gate for many will be left behind if they do not.

John 10:1 emphasizes that climbing up any other way makes that believer a thief, allowing something else to come in between them & The Son.

The Father renders the standard of judgment on believers in John :22 by how they honor the Son in order to honor the Father as the latter part of John 5:23 cites that when they are not honoring the Son, they are not honoring the Father, thus purposefully excluding the Holy Spirit.

Why? Because sinners in the world needs to be called away from their focus on these spirits & their visitations to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father through the Son ( the Bridegroom ) for why the spotlight on the Holy Spirt must decrease for the Son as the Bridegroom to increase. John he Baptist testified to this necessity in being a true witness in John 3:28-30 and he was the prophesied voice in the wilderness and so the same is for the role of the Holy Spirit in that the Holy Spirit must decrease in the spotlight so that the Son may increase.

Those led by the Spirit of God will be doing wat the Holy Spirit has been sent to do... to testify of the Son ( John 15:26 ) to glorify the Son ( John 16:14 ) and He does that through us ( John15:26 ). When believer worship & honor the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, they are not honoring the Father and that is not the mind of Christ we are to have in worship as Paul testified to what that mind of Christ is that we are to have in worship in obedience as Christ Jesus is the One that works in us per Philippians 2:5-13.

So did Christ really said that & meant that? Even in John 14:13-14 is why the Holy Spirit is not to be prayed to because Jesus is the One that answers prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers. Tongues are not for private use as it is a stranger's voice gained by climbing up another way, thinking they can receive the Holy Spirit "again" by that sign of tongue ( John 10:1-5 ) which is that lie for why God permits that strong delusion to occur & yet Paul reminds them of the traditions taught of us for when we had received the promise of the Holy Spirit was at our salvation at the hearing of the gospel and the belief of the truth & no other time ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9-15 ).

The Holy Spirit is God and One of the Three Persons of the Godhead, but because of sinners in the world that worship spirits and speak in nonsense supernatural tongues is why God the Father is calling sinners to Him through the only way provided, through the Son as Jesus Christ is the only way we can live that reconciled relationship with God the Father. Jesus is the Bridegroom for how we are intimate with God by.

Those that have gone astray, should repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes by striving to enter thru that straight gate if they wish to be raptured. Luke 13:24 & John 14:6

 

[Saxon]

Hark, Do you not believe the Trinity of God The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are/is the one God?

There is only one God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

The Father is called God.
1 Corinthians 8:6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The Holy Spirit is Called God.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Jesus openly led the Jews into the fact that he was God.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

This is simplistic, but the reality of God is totally beyond man's ability to understand the three in one. The concept is beyond our ability to understand. but the idea can be seen in nature. One flock but many sheep or birds. One heard but many horses or cows. This in no way is the totality of what the trinity is, just an idea that points to an inconceivable truth.
John 14:1-6 is about being ready to be raptured as Jesus is the only way in coming to God the Father by as we live our reconciled lives down here thru Jesus Christ.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This very well could be alluding to the rapture, but the main thrust is in verse 6, "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". This is referring to our coming to God for salvation through Jesus. This is not necessarily HOW we get to heaven (rapture) but how we have access to God while on Earth. I am not trying to argue rapture, but point out our initial introduction to the Father is only available by way of Jesus.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

I see this as a reference to UNBELIEVERS trying to make heaven their home without going to Christ first.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If you accept the trinity as I have tried to explain it, there is no leaving out the Holy Spirit. You mention God then the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are always present by default. I am aware that the trinity concept is not totally understood but the concept is rational and believable. Let's not through the baby with the bath water. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are the ONE God.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

You are in danger of stepping into great error by trying to separate the Holy Spirit from God. He is equal in the salvation of men, with the Father and Son. John was speaking of himself when he said, "He must increase, but I must decrease". John the Baptist did not mention the Holy Spirit at that time.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
You have the roles reversed. The Spirit does not glorify the Son through us, it is us that glorify the Son through the Spirit.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

When the believers worship and honor the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, they are worshiping and honoring The Lord God Almighty, the Holy Trinity.

S

The Holy Spirit is God in all aspects and is included in all worship of God, because he is God. There is no separating the one God, or the one God concept is a lie, a falsehood. I would stay close to the Bible when making statements about the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Mark 3:29 but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
Using 2 Thessalonians 2:9-15 to put the Holy spirit in the role of the bad guy is also dangerous. see above. Check Paul, he never condemns tongues, but promoted tongues, 1Corinthians 14, the whole chapter. Anyone that thinks that Paul is dissenting to tongues is delusional.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Yes, we are all Spirit worshipers.

In order for you to know for sure that people speak in nonsense supernatural tongues is that you must be able to be fluent in all languages that have ever been spoken and ever will be spoken otherwise you don't know what is real and what is not. In reality, if I were to put you in a room full of foreign nationals that were only spoke their own language and one person speaking in tongues, you would not be able to point out the single tongue speaker.
We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. We are all in the same need, no exceptions.

 

[Hark]

Hark, Do you not believe the Trinity of God The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are/is the one God?

Yes, but God the Father provided only one way to come to Him and that is by the Son; not by the Holy Spirit in coming to the Father. Otherwise John 14:6 loses all meaning since Jesus specified that He is the only way in coming to the Father by..

There is only one God.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

The Father is called God.
1 Corinthians 8:6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The Holy Spirit is Called God.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Jesus openly led the Jews into the fact that he was God.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

This is simplistic, but the reality of God is totally beyond man's ability to understand the three in one. The concept is beyond our ability to understand. but the idea can be seen in nature. One flock but many sheep or birds. One heard but many horses or cows. This in no way is the totality of what the trinity is, just an idea that points to an inconceivable truth.
John 14:1-6 is about being ready to be raptured as Jesus is the only way in coming to God the Father by as we live our reconciled lives down here thru Jesus Christ.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

This very well could be alluding to the rapture, but the main thrust is in verse 6, "no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". This is referring to our coming to God for salvation through Jesus. This is not necessarily HOW we get to heaven (rapture) but how we have access to God while on Earth. I am not trying to argue rapture, but point out our initial introduction to the Father is only available by way of Jesus.

But you limit that to just an initial introduction when that does specified Jesus being the only way to come to God the Father by for all things.

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

I see this as a reference to UNBELIEVERS trying to make heaven their home without going to Christ first.

Actually, when read in context, this is about apostasy and those falling away for how & why they follow a stranger's voice in John 10:1-11 They claimed up another way to get tongues for private use that does not come with interpretation, believing they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation which is the lie for why God will permit that strong delusion to occur in 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 but Paul reminds us of the traditions taught of us of when the only time we will receive the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth which is at the calling of the gospel & at no other time per 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15.

That is why in relations to the gifts of the Spirit which is given to profit the body withal, not individually or privately per 1 Corinthians 12:4-14 so when tongue speakers today boast of all the things tongues can do for private use is the same thing as saying, we have no need of you which Paul spoken against in 1 Corinthians 12:19-21, Tongue speakers today read in between the lines as if in 1 Corinthians 14th chapter, Paul is telling believers to seek tongues for private use when it is the opposite message he was given. Paul knew many would misunderstand him for why he gave the bottom line on tongues for what they ae for; to speak unto the people by the law & the prophets in 1 Corinthians 14:20-22 where they ignore how they promote tongues to seek after by seeking to receive the Holy Spirit by evidence of tongues rather than by faith in Jesus Christ, Whom they had already received at their salvation when they had first believed in Him. They forget the warning of committing spiritual adultery by seeking a sign in Matthew 12:39 when the promise of the Spirit is received by faith in Jesus Christ; not by a sign of tongues.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

If you accept the trinity as I have tried to explain it, there is no leaving out the Holy Spirit. You mention God then the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are always present by default. I am aware that the trinity concept is not totally understood but the concept is rational and believable. Let's not through the baby with the bath water. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are the ONE God.

You have to answer why it was specified in the latter half of verse 23 that when you not honoring the Son, you are not honoring the Father.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

That is Jesus answering the Samaritan woman's question as to where to worship God at; in the mountains as she and her people do or in the Temple in Jerusalem. Now they can come to God the Father in worship anywhere. How? By honoring the Son in worship, they are honoring the father. By coming To the Son in worship anywhere, is how they come to the Father.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

That is the Spirit of Christ in believers testifying of the Son in honoring the Son in seeking the glory of the Son thru us.

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The sword of the Spirit is Jesus Christ, the Word of God. The words of Jesus Christ recited by the Spirit is that sword per John 16:13 for He will not speak of Himself, but whatsoever He hears, that He will speak. The Spirit speaks the words from Jesus Christ, the Word of God.

 

[Hark]

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1 John 4:2 is the same as saying Jesus Christ is in us in 2 Corinthians 13:5 because 1 John 4:3-4 testifies when anyone says otherwise as if pointing to the Spirit of Christ as not in us but outside of us or in the worship place, that IS the spirit of the antichrist. That is why when testing the spirits, if believers feel a spirit coming over them later on in life, that is NOT the Holy Spirit, especially claiming tongues for private use because tongues is not a stand alone gift to be sought after at all because He would bring about interpretation from another or otherwise the tongue speaker is unedified, not knowing what was said and thus the tongue is unfruitful to the tongue speaker.

That kind of supernatural tongue exists in the world before God's gift of tongues had come at Pentecost which is of other men's lips tp speak unto the people. Isaiah 8:19 is evidence of that kind of tongue in the occult. Secular research online can show history of ecstatic tongues in use at idolatries in Rome as the example of the worship of Dinah has been done at that temple..

So how can God call those sinners away from that kind of tongue and those spirits? By only coming to the Son in worship in how they come to God the Father... and to keep coming to the Son to avid those spirits of the antichrist that seeks to come in between the believer & the Son to interfere with them actually knowing what they had prayed for by way of the Son at that throne of grace to the father so when they get answers to prayers, they give the father thanks in Jesus's name which is the will of God for us to do. So praying in tongues is the thief that keeps you from coming to the Son at that throne of grace in prayer to the Father in praying normally to know what you had prayed for so when you get an answer from Jesus, you can give the Father genuine thanks in Jesus's name..

You are in danger of stepping into great error by trying to separate the Holy Spirit from God. He is equal in the salvation of men, with the Father and Son. John was speaking of himself when he said, "He must increase, but I must decrease". John the Baptist did not mention the Holy Spirit at that time.

There is no separating the Holy Spirit from the Father & the Son, but acknowledging the Father's will in how we are to approach Him in anything to keep sinners and their kind of tongues and their spirits of the antichrist away from the believers. We are led by the Spirit & the scripture to keep coming to the Son, the Bridegroom, in having that fellowship with God the Father.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
John 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
John 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

You have the roles reversed. The Spirit does not glorify the Son through us, it is us that glorify the Son through the Spirit.

More like we are led by the Spirit to testify of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son & not the Spirit's glory or our own glory. That way the spirit's testimony aligns with our testimony of the Son for how our individual witness is true and ur worship is trye when we worship Him alone by ourselves.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. KJV

That is why we are not led by the Spirit to testify of the Spirit in seeking the gory of the Holy Spirit, since He is the Spirit of Christ in testifying of Him in seeking the glory of the Son.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

is there any unrighteousness in the Holy Spirit? No, because He seeks to testify of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son so how can we, as believers bed led by the Spirit to speak in any other way? Therefore it is an assumption of man to assume that just because the Holy Spirit is God and of the Triune God that we are to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son when scripture does not teach that at all but specifically teaches us otherwise in how to honor the Father & how to come to Him specifically in worship to honor Him by; the Son.

In order for you to know for sure that people speak in nonsense supernatural tongues is that you must be able to be fluent in all languages that have ever been spoken and ever will be spoken otherwise you don't know what is real and what is not. In reality, if I were to put you in a room full of foreign nationals that were only spoke their own language and one person speaking in tongues, you would not be able to point out the single tongue speaker.

Paul lay the bottom line about the use of God's gift of tongues and it was never meant for private use because it will stand apart from pagan's supernatural tongue as babbling nonsense; a stranger's voice. Since God's gift is manifested to profit the body withal, then His gift of tongues will come with interpretation. When it does not, and assumed for private use, it is not God's gift of tongues, and it is to be shunned. Otherwise, to allow that which edifies not but for private use is to deny that you had received Him at your salvation moment for then you are saying you have received Him again by that sign of tongues later on in life as a saved believer which you did not.

The irony is that as much as believer hyped that second experience as that being of the Holy Ghost, it doesn't end there. That other calling or second calling becomes another calling as they receive hat they believe is the Holy Spirit again and again and again after other signs in the flesh like slain in the spirit or holy laughter or even a "healing" as seen in Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade when he announces the Holy Spirit as falling on already saved believers to receive a healing.

There is only one drink of the One Spirit at our salvation for why we are filled thus saved and shall never thirst nor hunger again. Those that have that other drink are still thirsty for that other drink for why it is not of Him denying His promise that once filled, as in once saved, we would never thirst nor hunger again per John 6:35. It is a testimony that we are a new creature hence new wine bottles able to hold the new wine aka the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Does our faith & that truth seen in how we worship, pray & fellowship or are believers worshiping Him OUT of the Spirit & apart from the Truth?

Since the truth is He is in us always since salvation, then there is no receiving Him again thus able to worship the Son & the Father in Spirit and in Truth always as led by the Spirit & scripture to do.

 

[Hark]

Here is a question;

For those that do believe "slain in the spirit" and the "holy laughter" movement or even the Ernest Anegleys' Heaking Crusade where he announces the Holy Spirit falling on already saved believers to bring about supposed "healing" is NOT of God, then explain how they addressed and prayed to the Holy Spirit to come & fall on them and then it happened?

Why would God allow the devil to respond since God is not the author of confusion, when praying to or addressing in worship for the Holy Spirit to come and fall on them, again and again and again on already saved believers?

If you cannot answer that, then may He help you understand why the way to God the father is narrow that no invitation has been given to come to the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is the promise for all those that comes to & believes in Jesus Christ at their salvation moment & no other.

That is why our reconciled relationship with God the Father can only be through Jesus Christ. There are no other invitations to come to God the Father by, not even after Jesus for there is no other calling nor any other baptism with the Holy Ghost to be had so we can rest in the Son.

To climb up another way than what God the father has provided in approaching Him is a work of iniquity for why many may find themselves left behind at the rapture event.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Apply this examination of our faith to what is being done in worship when believers that err, seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again are denying Him as having been received as promise by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If you do not ask Jesus for the wisdom to apply His warning to see why you need to narrow your focus in worship in order to honor the Father by only honoring the Son as led by the Spirit to do, then you risk suffering a thief to break through & think that visitation was the Holy Spirit because you were honoring Him in worship which was not what the father said for us to do in how we were to honor Him by.

How can you convince believers if a phenomena happens while honoring or addressing the Holy Spirit in worship & that spirit of antichrist comes & falls on them, bringing about confusion which God is not the author of if YOU do not see the offense for why God permit that strong delusion to occur? So narrow the way back to the Son in worship in only honoring Him if you truly wish to honor the Father in worship.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[squirrelyguy]

I think the answer to your question is better answered by this fact: Jesus says you can speak a word against Him and be forgiven; but you won't be forgiven for speaking a word against the Holy Spirit.

Does that translate into a requirement for worshipping the Holy Spirit? I guess it all comes down to semantics...what exactly does it mean to "worship?" If I can get away with being irreverent towards Jesus, but not with irreverence towards the Holy Spirit, how can one not respond to the Holy Spirit without a heightened sense of reverence or awe? It seems to me that if I'm giving the Holy Spirit a greater reverence than Jesus, based on Jesus' own warning, then I'm in effect worshipping the Holy Spirit even if I think I'm not. I don't see how it could be any other way.

 

[Hark]

I think the answer to your question is better answered by this fact: Jesus says you can speak a word against Him and be forgiven; but you won't be forgiven for speaking a word against the Holy Spirit.

Does that translate into a requirement for worshipping the Holy Spirit? I guess it all comes down to semantics...what exactly does it mean to "worship?" If I can get away with being irreverent towards Jesus, but not with irreverence towards the Holy Spirit, how can one not respond to the Holy Spirit without a heightened sense of reverence or awe? It seems to me that if I'm giving the Holy Spirit a greater reverence than Jesus, based on Jesus' own warning, then I'm in effect worshipping the Holy Spirit even if I think I'm not. I don't see how it could be any other way.

When you consider the role of the Holy Spirit in ministry in that He will lead us to testify of the Son to seek the glory of the Son, and not of Himself in seeking His own glory, then how can that not be applied to worship as well? In other words, as the Holy Spirit leads us in ministry, why would it be any different in worship as led by the Spirit of Christ to do?

 

[Saxon]

I think the answer to your question is better answered by this fact: Jesus says you can speak a word against Him and be forgiven; but you won't be forgiven for speaking a word against the Holy Spirit.

Does that translate into a requirement for worshipping the Holy Spirit? I guess it all comes down to semantics...what exactly does it mean to "worship?" If I can get away with being irreverent towards Jesus, but not with irreverence towards the Holy Spirit, how can one not respond to the Holy Spirit without a heightened sense of reverence or awe? It seems to me that if I'm giving the Holy Spirit a greater reverence than Jesus, based on Jesus' own warning, then I'm in effect worshipping the Holy Spirit even if I think I'm not. I don't see how it could be any other way.

This is refreshing. Someone that can read and compare scripture with scripture!!!! The wonders of the Lord have not stopped!

 

[Hark]

This is refreshing. Someone that can read and compare scripture with scripture!!!! The wonders of the Lord have not stopped!

How am I speaking "against" the Holy Spirit if I cite scripture what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do in leading believers to testify of the Son to glorify the Son in ministry? So why would the Holy Spirit lead differently in worship? The Holy Spirit would do the same thing in leading believers in worship to testify of the Son to glorify the Son ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 KJV ).

So no one has yet to provide scripture to prove for the practice that God wants us to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but scripture has been provided how we are to specifically come to the Father ( John 14:6 ) and how specifically to honor the Father by. ( John 5:23 )

 

[Saxon]

How am I speaking "against" the Holy Spirit if I cite scripture what the Holy Spirit has been sent to do in leading believers to testify of the Son to glorify the Son in ministry? So why would the Holy Spirit lead differently in worship? The Holy Spirit would do the same thing in leading believers in worship to testify of the Son to glorify the Son ( John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14 KJV ).

You have no clue about the trinity. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the ONE God. They are coequal in every respect. You cannot have one without the other. We have no clue as to how God would be in HIS totality. You don't seem to comprehend the simplified version that God has presented to us so the reality is way beyond our ability to know him as he is. The comforter (the Holy Spirit) is totally God, as Jesus is totally God, as the Father is totally God. Three persons; one God. We are to worship God, not just parts and pieces.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:27 and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So no one has yet to provide scripture to prove for the practice that God wants us to worship the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son, but scripture has been provided how we are to specifically come to the Father ( John 14:6 ) and how specifically to honor the Father by. ( John 5:23 )

Again; You have no clue about the trinity. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit each do their part in our salvation and the guidance through life. The Father grant salvation to the believer, Jesus provided the means of salvation by his sinless life and his sacrificial death on the cross and the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth (Jesus).

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 5:23 that all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Hark]

You have no clue about the trinity. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are the ONE God. They are coequal in every respect.

The Holy Spirit & the Son are submissive to the Father's will for why during Jesus's time on earth, the Holy Spirit served as the Spirit of the Father and now that Christ has ascended, the Holy Spirit serves as the Spirit of Christ as the Son is the Head of the Church, ministering according to the Father's will.

You cannot have one without the other. We have no clue as to how God would be in HIS totality. You don't seem to comprehend the simplified version that God has presented to us so the reality is way beyond our ability to know him as he is. The comforter (the Holy Spirit) is totally God, as Jesus is totally God, as the Father is totally God. Three persons; one God. We are to worship God, not just parts and pieces.

There are sinners in the world that worship spirits directly and not just behind the idols. Example is the American Indians that worship the Great Spirit. They would dance & chant for the Great Spirit to fall on them. When they were introduced to alcohol, they referred to drunkenness to how they used to commune with the Great Spirit.

Cut to today; Christians are experiencing an extra phenomenon when focus is on the Holy Spirit, seeking to receive Him for that effect. They try to rationalize it by calling that being drunk in the Spirit as receiving joy, but that cannot be true. The fruit of the Spirit, Self Control or Temperance, opposes joy being drunkenness as a House divided cannot stand. Therefore their falling is a result of putting that focus on the Holy Spirit in worship while some are falling causing others in seeking to receive that phenomenon too.

So what happened here? To avoid that iniquity, as well as call sinners away from that spirit of the antichrist, is why we are to narrow the way back to the straight gate per Luke 13:24-30 because God the Father is calling sinners & still calling saved believers to keep coming to the Son ( the Bridegroom ) in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father..

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:27 and ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Again; You have no clue about the trinity. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit each do their part in our salvation and the guidance through life. The Father grant salvation to the believer, Jesus provided the means of salvation by his sinless life and his sacrificial death on the cross and the Holy Spirit leads and guides us into all truth (Jesus).

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You have to ask yourself why Jesus said John 14:6 the way that He had said it about Himself being the only way to come to God the Father by. For sinners to know they are relating to God the Father by the only way of the Son, and for churches & believers to know that these sinners have departed from those spirits and their practice of focus on the spirits, and for Christians to be able to test the spirts so they know He is in us to discern that spirit coming over them later in life as a saved believer IS NOT the real Holy Spirit.... that is why we are to come to God the Father by the only way provided to come to Him by, by way of the Son so we do not allow seducing spirits to come in when our focus is broad and on the Holy Spirit in worship to mislead believers into thinking that was the Holy Spirit.

That is how believers are falling astray; they allow the worship of the Holy Spirit be the opportunity for the spirit of the antichrist to come in and take that spotlight away from the Son in worship for signs & wonders. They prayed or addressed the Holy Spirit in worship and this happened. So how can you prevent confusion which God is not the author of? By heeding His words that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by. Matthew 7:13-27 So no matter the "miracles", if they are falling, it is an iniquity they are in. See Matthew 7:21-27 for confirmation

So what better way to avoid that? Keep your eyes on the Son in honoring Him in worship IN Spirit & IN Truth if you wish to worship the Father by.

 

[Saxon]

The Holy Spirit & the Son are submissive to the Father's will for why during Jesus's time on earth, the Holy Spirit served as the Spirit of the Father and now that Christ has ascended, the Holy Spirit serves as the Spirit of Christ as the Son is the Head of the Church, ministering according to the Father's will.

There are sinners in the world that worship spirits directly and not just behind the idols. Example is the American Indians that worship the Great Spirit. They would dance & chant for the Great Spirit to fall on them. When they were introduced to alcohol, they referred to drunkenness to how they used to commune with the Great Spirit.

Cut to today; Christians are experiencing an extra phenomenon when focus is on the Holy Spirit, seeking to receive Him for that effect. They try to rationalize it by calling that being drunk in the Spirit as receiving joy, but that cannot be true. The fruit of the Spirit, Self Control or Temperance, opposes joy being drunkenness as a House divided cannot stand. Therefore their falling is a result of putting that focus on the Holy Spirit in worship while some are falling causing others in seeking to receive that phenomenon too.

So what happened here? To avoid that iniquity, as well as call sinners away from that spirit of the antichrist, is why we are to narrow the way back to the straight gate per Luke 13:24-30 because God the Father is calling sinners & still calling saved believers to keep coming to the Son ( the Bridegroom ) in living that reconciled relationship with God the Father..

You have to ask yourself why Jesus said John 14:6 the way that He had said it about Himself being the only way to come to God the Father by. For sinners to know they are relating to God the Father by the only way of the Son, and for churches & believers to know that these sinners have departed from those spirits and their practice of focus on the spirits, and for Christians to be able to test the spirts so they know He is in us to discern that spirit coming over them later in life as a saved believer IS NOT the real Holy Spirit.... that is why we are to come to God the Father by the only way provided to come to Him by, by way of the Son so we do not allow seducing spirits to come in when our focus is broad and on the Holy Spirit in worship to mislead believers into thinking that was the Holy Spirit.

That is how believers are falling astray; they allow the worship of the Holy Spirit be the opportunity for the spirit of the antichrist to come in and take that spotlight away from the Son in worship for signs & wonders. They prayed or addressed the Holy Spirit in worship and this happened. So how can you prevent confusion which God is not the author of? By heeding His words that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by. Matthew 7:13-27 So no matter the "miracles", if they are falling, it is an iniquity they are in. See Matthew 7:21-27 for confirmation

So what better way to avoid that? Keep your eyes on the Son in honoring Him in worship IN Spirit & IN Truth if you wish to worship the Father by.

Come back when you learn to read what is there and comprehend what you read. You make no sense.