*smiled
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what if...
- Thread starter radvermin
- Start date
The question asked had no bearing on our free will to accept or reject. It had to do with God's will to do as you claim is possible in the "how did Paul know it was Jesus" thread. That he can make himself known beyond doubt -which obviously is not the case with 8krak.
The incongruencies mount.
Absolutely correct.
He is waiting either for the time He's chosen to give salvation to you, or for time He's chosen to judge you for your unbelief
It is God's right to determine when He will save you, or if He will save not save you. You obviously understand that by your first remark above.
Yes, He does
Then be patient and see if He choises to save you, or not.
Because He's never intended to save them.
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
Luckily, convincing somebody that you exist does not infringe upon their free will.
No excuse.
1. Who said anything about love? Let's start with his very existence first, eh?
2. He knows, even if you don't, that love requires awareness.
He can't force us to love him but, by not demonstrating himself, he can force us not to?
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
Yeah... he's gone full pre-sup, now.
He knows it's over.
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But that's not my position.
Correct, and right at the end of v20, the verse in those I cited for you, it days He did that, "IN HOPE."
He continues:
...that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. And not only that, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons and daughters, the redemption of our body. For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, through perseverance we wait eagerly for it ... And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:22-25, 28.
Once again, you are wrong.Matt always needed a simpleton's script. He'd always get absolutely slaughtered out fighting with his own wits.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
I could be wrong, but he doesn't seem to have such a high profile these days, since the end of the Bible Thumping Wingnut Show collaboration.
It seemed to start from when Alex Malpass took apart his TAG.
More biblical oddness... "God has subjected all of the creation to futility"... so that he could.... "set [it] free from its slavery to corruption" ???
Wow... This philosophy is a head-spinner for sure.
By 'futility' I interpret that futility comes from death, the knowing we will die. King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived apart from Jesus in the book of Ecclesiastes in the Bible tackles this subject.
Not so sure.... New Testament Christianity is an apocalyptic religion. Jesus taught divestment and preparation.
Also remember, Solomon was a Old Testament Jew.... the philosophy of afterlife was not a Jewish "thing - teaching" back then. It was a much later Jewish gnostic invention to attempt an explaination as to why the righteous suffer and the wicked thrive. It was hypothesized as an rationalization when obedience to the law fared no better for the chosen of God in this life - so they invented an afterlife (probably stolen from Hellenistic tradition).
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Even though I know you won't receive it. I'll put it out there anyways. Jesus Christ's resurrection is that evidence. The empty grave. The witnesses that saw him. There is one example of the apostle Peter praying for a woman named Dorcas who died and came back to life (not a resurrection) in the book of Acts.
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
And the look on his face when it happened... my strongest instance of schadenfraude of the last five years, I think
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
You're right - I won't accept this.
If stories in a book were evidence, I'd be out looking for Platform 9 3/4 so I could go to Hogwarts.
... and Dillahunty held his head down in the tub till the bubbles stopped on the false dichotomy of his excluded middle nonsense.
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It's THEOLOGY.
I'm not sure if you worded the bolded correctly but I'll attempt to respond to the sentence below it.
God could force us to bow down and serve him. He could impose his will on us and make us do whatever he wants us to do. He could have invented us to be like robots. But that would mean that he is a dictator or a control freak. In that case, He wouldn't be the loving, humble, self-sacrificial God that we see in Christ Jesus who died in our place to reconcile us to himself because he LOVES us. Love cannot be forced. My understanding is that God allows us to reject him. He doesn't impose him will on us.
I personally believe that God created us because he wanted beings that he could love and receive love in return. I think he was lonely (not in the pathetic sense) and that's why when he created Adam and when He saw that it was not good for Adam to be alone, He created Eve. It is that love which can only be freely given if it is truly love that God desires and not praise and worship. Many Christians would scorn me for saying those things with numerous arguments. Oh well.
Yes, God can do whatever he wants to do but he is constrained by WHO he is, the type of Person he is that he doesn't.
Is that sufficient answer?...probably not.
I don't have all the answers. You sound like my older son. I can't even convince my son that God is real why would I possibly think I could convince you?
I have a somewhat open view of God's all-knowing which at the present I cannot articulate well but there are other Christians who can articulate it and answer difficult questions. If you are interested in references, I can provide those to you.
God is not only up there right now, he is with you right now where you are. He is omnipresent.
All I can say that makes sense to me is that he has and continues to reach out to you and everyone. You may have not perceived the attempts. He may have spoken to you in your mind with a thought and you pushed it away. He may have sent a Christian to talk to you and you resisted or rejected what they had to say. He may have allowed difficult circumstances to enter your life thinking surely these will cause him to reach out to me. Other ways would be dreams and visions.
If God did do exactly what you want, would you believe? Would that be enough evidence for you?
There were only good angels when God created them. They stood in God's presence all of the time but one of them became proud and wanted to be God. There was a war in heaven and those angels (1/3) who took Lucifer's side were kicked out of heaven and thrown down to earth.
Those fallen angels had all of the evidence that they could possibly want and still they foolishly rebelled against God.
I don't know what else to say to you as to why he doesn't show himself in a more obvious fashion. He expects Christians to live by faith. We have glimpses of him here and there but it's not like I feel his presence with me all of the time. That doesn't mean that he isn't with me all of the time.
Awe. You can get the live version. Paul was a believer in God before he became Christian. He thought he was doing God a favor by destroying Christians who he felt spreading a false teaching about his God. God is merciful to us all because of our ignornance. If you want the live version, why not humbly ask for Him for a sign of his existence?
I agree.
Ask him then.