what if...

Eightcrackers said:
More than two-thirds of the world is not Christian.

He either doesn't want us to believe, or doesn't care whether or not we believe. In either case, he wouldn't deserve to be loved.
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Or, He does want you to believe, but His chosen time for you to believe has not yet arrived ...
 
Eightcrackers said:
Cool story, bro (y)

My creators are downstairs right now - I don't reject them.
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Have you ever seen someone die and the lights go out in their eyes? The lifeless body remains but that spark of life isn't there anymore. There is part of us, our soul/spirit or the real you, that leaves the body at death. That spark comes from God, the giver of life, not our natural parents.
 
Eightcrackers said:
If he wants everybody to know he's real, why doesn't everybody know?

(Please don't bother replying with Romans 1:20, or some other such nonsense.)
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I can only speak for myself. When I was an atheist I didn't want to know God. Any attempts that he might have made, I pushed aside.
It came to a point where something happened, something supernatural and I spoke into the air to a being I didn't believe in and asked for help. My pathetic selfish prayer was answered. The supernatural thing that was happening to me went away and slowly, very slowly with other moves of God toward me (that I recognized later after becoming a Christian) my mind became more open to the existence of God.

I believe that God attempts to draw everyone to himself in different ways and by different means but he doesn't force himself on us. He gave us a free will so that we can accept his advances or reject them. Unfortunately Jesus stated in one of his teachings that the majority will reject him.
 
Caroljeen said:
Have you ever seen someone die and the lights go out in their eyes? The lifeless body remains but that spark of life isn't there anymore. There is part of us, our soul/spirit or the real you, that leaves the body at death.
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There is absolutely no good evidence to support the bolded conclusion.

Whatsoever.
 
Caroljeen said:
I can only speak for myself. When I was an atheist I didn't want to know God. Any attempts that he might have made, I pushed aside.
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There should be absolutely no way that a being who is

1. desirous of a person's belief,
2. all-knowing, and
3. all-powerful

should fail to get anybody's attention - he wants it (1), knows how to get it (2), and is capable of bringing it about (3).

So, why are there people that die without his getting their attention?

(Don't say "because they ignore him" - please refer to the three properties above.)
 
Caroljeen said:
I can only speak for myself. When I was an atheist I didn't want to know God. Any attempts that he might have made, I pushed aside.
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You don't sound like an atheist in the way I understand it. For me it's not a matter of wanting to know or not. That you you did see it that way and that you pushed aside said attempts, indicates that you were seriously open to the idea that God was real.
 
Whatsisface said:
You don't sound like an atheist in the way I understand it. For me it's not a matter of wanting to know or not. That you you did see it that way and that you pushed aside said attempts, indicates that you were seriously open to the idea that God was real.
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I didn't know he was attempting to reach out to me until I became a Christian and looked back at the events that lead me to becoming a Christian.
 
Torin said:
I already pretty much do that. I quietly classify specific people here as cartoon people in my mind, once they prove to be such. Once I classify them in this way, I almost never reply to them again, and when I do occasionally reply to them I expect some kind of nonsense in response.

It works well, and I think everyone should try it. Most CARM posters don't.
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BUT HEY!!!! "Ringers" are fun to play with, don'cha know.
 
Howie said:
Yes and no.

Let's stick with no. I get sick. I'm getting old and have aches and pains. I'm going to die. I don't know how that will play out. My choice is to die quietly and peacefully in my sleep, but I may die an excruciatingly painful death from cancer, or some other heslth malady, or I may die in a car accident, or may be shot by a common criminal in the street. I'm not privy to that info, only Gid knows.

Because of Adam's sin, God has subjected all of the creation to futility ... all of it ... even those who believe (Rom 8:18-25).

But I have the hope of the promise of a future life without futility; therefore, I have no reason to fear God. None whatsoever.
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So you are a nihilist then. I suppose that's the inevitable outcome of Christianity.
 
Eightcrackers said:
There should be absolutely no way that a being who is

1. desirous of a person's belief,
2. all-knowing, and
3. all-powerful

should fail to get anybody's attention - he wants it (1), knows how to get it (2), and is capable of bringing it about (3).

So, why are there people that die without his getting their attention?

(Don't say "because they ignore him" - please refer to the three properties above.)
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Why do I have to follow your directions in answering a questions? Why do you want to restrict my answers? Have I been limiting you as to how you can respond to me? Seriously?

Because for whatever reasons they have, they do not respond to his attempts to save them. An attempt that God can use in reaching out to people might be as simple as me sharing my belief in God to you and the reasons why I believe. God can move upon your heart to want to know more. When God does that you can reject it or receive it and reach out to God yourself as I did. It's all up to how you respond to his advances to you. I recognize that these seem subtle and that you may be looking for something more miraculous, supernatural like Paul's conversion experience.
Once you make one tiny step toward God, he will respond but you really have to be open to it.

Do you want a miracle to happen before you believe? A miracle did happen when Christ rose from the dead! Do you have to see with your own eyes that Jesus is alive like Paul to believe? If you did, would you believe? Gus doesn't seem to think that is enough.
 
Caroljeen said:
So you apathetic to God's existence? Why do you come here if you have no interest?
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I've always been interested in the debate about God. I saw a video of this sites owner giving a particular argument for God. There was a lot he said that I thought was wrong so I came here to hopefully give my two penneth worth.
 
Caroljeen said:
Why do I have to follow your directions in answering a questions? Why do you want to restrict my answers? Have I been limiting you as to how you can respond to me? Seriously?
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Because I have seen every possible attempt to answer this question, from "it would interfere with our free will" to "everybody already knows".

I just want something 1. new, and 2. from your own mind (not the Bible).
Caroljeen said:
Because for whatever reasons they have, they do not respond to his attempts to save them.
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An all-powerful being cannot, by definition, attempt anything.
Anything he wants to happen will happen.
Caroljeen said:
An attempt that God can use in reaching out to people might be as simple as me sharing my belief in God to you and the reasons why I believe. God can move upon your heart to want to know more. When God does that you can reject it or receive it and reach out to God yourself as I did. It's all up to how you respond to his advances to you. I recognize that these seem subtle and that you may be looking for something more miraculous, supernatural like Paul's conversion experience.
Once you make one tiny step toward God, he will respond but you really have to be open to it.
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If he knows what will convince me, why not do that?
If he's up there right now, watching me, and knows what will convince me this very instant, what's he waiting for?
Caroljeen said:
Do you want a miracle to happen before you believe? A miracle did happen when Christ rose from the dead! Do you have to see with your own eyes that Jesus is alive like Paul to believe?
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Why is this not unreasonable?
Why does Paul get the live version, while I have to make do with two-thousand year old multiply-translated accounts from at least thirty years after the "fact"?
Caroljeen said:
If you did, would you believe?
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I don't know.
But that's not the point - your god, if he's real, knows what would cause me to believe.

I don't need to know what would convince me, as long as he knows.
 
Howie said:
LOL. Prove it.

Prove that as well.
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LoL... yeah

There are many branches of nihilism. One branch is philosophical pessimism. It is a worldview that assigns a negative value to life and that life is adverse to living beings, and that life is fundamentally meaningless or without purpose.

Your words: "Because of Adam's sin, God has subjected all of the creation to futility ... all of it ... even those who believe"
 
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