Thief on the cross - forgiven how?

Under the Mosiac Covenant, yes, sacrifices would still be required. Under the New Covenant, no, sacrifices are no longer required.
Except when there is no temple, since it is unlawful to offer sacrifice anywhere else. We go by the instructions of Hosea 14:2 "The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices)." This is why Jews pray the same three times during the day as the temple offerings.
 
Under the Mosiac Covenant, yes, sacrifices would still be required. Under the New Covenant, no, sacrifices are no longer required.
The new covenant has sacrifices as well, same laws written on the heart, Jeremiah 31:31-34; Jeremiah 33:14-26. The Levitical Priesthood is Eternal.

Notice the new covenant is with Israel and Judah.
 
Nor convincing.
Not everyone is convinced by the truth of scriptures.
It is true, God is not a person...God is one in nature and essence yet composed of 3 persons.
Why do you leave out God’s second nature, or was Jesus not really a human?
Kinda like you, but not exactly...you are one entity....composed of flesh, spirit, soul. Each of which each part can be seen as distinct from the other...yet are the other.
A human being/soul/person is the result of the unity of a spirit and a body as Gen. 2:7 teaches. So a soul is the entire living person not a distinct part.
 
We can reconcile ourselves, and achieve the same thing.
Not without continual sacrifices as per the Mosaic Covenant.
It proves his sacrifice isn't needed or unique.
It was unique since it only needed to be done once unlike the continual sacrifices.
Because certain sins require them when the temple is available.
So Israel might as well never rebuild a temple so they could just bypass that requirement.
 
Not without continual sacrifices as per the Mosaic Covenant.
There are sacrifices as needed. Ezekiel 37-45 shows this with the prince offering sacrifices for himself. So, the future Messiah will require them.

As stated, right now, reconciliation is achieved with prayers.

It was unique since it only needed to be done once unlike the continual sacrifices.
It's unique in that human sacrifices aren't called for. And regular sacrifices will still be required.

So Israel might as well never rebuild a temple so they could just bypass that requirement.
Well, that's not in God's plan, though. We could say that God should have started with Adam all over again, but He didn't. Even Jesus isn't the new Adam.
 
I didn't say that.
Not explicitly but that is what you imply. If the Jews picked up the idea of an afterlife from other religions then it didn’t come from YHWH and therefore anything outside of the Torah cannot be trusted as God’s word.
 
Nor convincing.

It is true, God is not a person...God is one in nature and essence yet composed of 3 persons.

Kinda like you, but not exactly...you are one entity....composed of flesh, spirit, soul. Each of which each part can be seen as distinct from the other...yet are the other.

Me, Myself, and I
One, spoken of three different ways
 
Not explicitly but that is what you imply. If the Jews picked up the idea of an afterlife from other religions then it didn’t come from YHWH and therefore anything outside of the Torah cannot be trusted as God’s word.
No, I didn't imply it. You imagined it in your head because that was easier than admit that I made a valid point.
 
Not for the son of man.
Your presumption is mind-numbing...The Son of Adam is a title, handed down with the authority of Adam. Kingship and dominion are given to him...
Where's his throne?
Sorry...I bolded, italicized, underlined, and enlarged the word...YOU CANNOT SEE. But you're quite capable of confirming Isaiah's word concerning you. Well done.

See above.
No need. There is nothing valid in anything there. At least attempt to see above...open your eyes.

There's no invention with Jesus' knees. They're flexible and bendable. ;)
Or the Ancient of Days' hair.

Yep. The grammatical form Ammonite and Moabite are masculine. That's why Ruth was able to marry in and be adopted.
Learn grammar...The masculine form is never exclusive. Only the feminine form is. If I say "Tous les Français", all the French, male and female are included. If I say, "Toutes les franchises...", it's women only. I'm never required to say, "Tous les Français et toutes les Françaises." That's how language works...any language that has not eschewed gender construction.

Your invention might well have instructed Israel to intermarry, and take Moabites as wives...Elohim never did. Our-Gods-Who-Are-One warned against it.
See above. Women only have the lineage of their father, but don't pass to their children.
Above has too much error. A Jew gains his Jewish lineage from his mother, not his father.

Obed would not have been Jewish according to your invention.

He misses all over the place. He's just human.
You missed what I said.

Missed everything. The thought of a 2nd coming shows he came up short.
Nope...shows that there is a "Time of the Gentiles" where Jerusalem is trampled down for a season, and where Israel wallows, as you make clear, in blindness and jealousy until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Ok, but you're still falling short.
Something is falling short...that's clear. Eyesight needs spectacles, at times...

No, I understand.
Enough to be self-satisfied...And you fall short. "Seems right. Good enough."

Angels are called forces, Psalm 104:3, as an example.
And ministers/servants and flames of fire...Even the Angel of the Lord! He comes as Three at times, then Two...He eats, drinks...and goes up into the flames on the altar. He's a pillar of fire at night. Smoke at day. And the Word is His Angel...Messengers appear as brilliant light. Messages bring brilliant light when they are from Him. Doesn't ever mean they are indescribable...They are not, and you cannot understand this. For you, you must make it "allegory." And they will always be described in terms we understand because most people don't use terms that they do not understand, unless they are speaking in tongues, at which point...no one understands them, but in the spirit they speak mysteries.

I can't help that the words visions and dreams are used.
Nope...You're only accountable for what you choose to believe, and what/whom you choose to mock. You can choose to. make fun of tongues and knees...and ignore hair and thrones, and still ascribe brilliance to your own argument. You have chosen to disregard Daniel's vision as "allegory," not spiritual and equally describable reality. It's choice...

Jesus actually had them when he was born and died. That's reality and the reason you don't Iike it.
Welll....yes. He did. The incarnation required that...and every bodily function. Swaddling clothes were necessary for the Baby. His eyes and tongue and knees are quite different now, and His thigh has His name on it! Yep.

The Prophet Paul, teacher of righteousness, rightly calls this a stumbling block for you...He's right again.
Well, if are you, you must accept his bowing.
Accept is easy when you understand submission. Stumbling is quite easy, too...isn't it?
Sorry, you're not gaining any ground here.
As I said. It's not time for you knee to bow or your tongue to confess, yet...but you will recall this explanation and it shall make sense. It's the way you and all are created. When the flesh dominates, it's impossible to see any spiritual reality. It must be make-believe and phantasmagoric invention.

It's clear Jesus is human with knees.
It's clear we bear His image...and it's clear about the hair and the thrones and the sitting, too..

Ok.
So, do you admit your gods are physical and created like we are?
So you do admit that, as God is, you are like in body and soul and spirit...Created in His image and likeness, and therefore easily described in three functional dimensions. One being of three. Good.
Actually, that's not true. You've shown you don't have a grasp how elohim, as an example, is used.
Actually...your own grammar fails every time you seek to argue by non-existent authority.
Could be.
And yet the soul, the whole human, submits to the flesh.
As the blood is not the "whole flesh," the soul is not the "whole human." It's the soul...It's that part that, in the tenakh is gathered to the fathers...and rests in Sheol until the Witch at En Dor disturbs it. Samuel did not come back to Saul in "whole human." Reading is very useful.

Sarcastically. You're not.
OK...Then don't be a hypocrite.

Sorry, Paul's an apostate and his words are dribble for me.
The latter is clearly true, as the prophet pointed out as he taught righteousness. Blindness prevents sight.

So, your gods have different bodies?
So your elohim have hair?
 
You fail to look at context, verb usage, etc. Neh 9:6. One God, exclusively alone.

No I don't...in fact, clearly, the context has escaped you!!! Why would GOD have to explain to Israel that HE is ONE, but that HE HIMSELF has chosen to describe HIMSELF as "GODS"...hence the paradox: "The LORD our GODS, the LORD is ONE." You have been taught to ignore BOTH context and all-important paradox.

And their invention worked. Your eyes are blinded to the actual words God chose, and the implication. That's why you miss the THREE WHO created the heavens and the earth, who are but ONE. You miss the SPIRIT brooding over tohu wa bohu. You miss the WORD. For you, there's necessarily only one dimension...

Only one, exclusively.
As I said. Blind.

You deliberately refuse to see, as it is written, the SPIRIT Who broods, the Father Who creates, with the WORD, by which all is created. You cannot see three, and you continue to pretend that I've claimed a "created" Word...not ONE WHO with the Father, is both living and active.

That's Christian theology, though it is denied.
You didn't understand...It's what YOU'VE been taught. You recite "Our GODS is ONE..." and you've been taught to ignore what the words mean. Denial is not Christian theology. It's Jewish theology. The plural necessarily...well...conveniently...loses its meaning in Jewish theology.

The word isn't a him. Notice from the beginning, not before.
False claims...He clearly is...and you're stuck in space/time...and your invention is not even eternal. Your second claim is actually meaningless and absurd. Time began at a word. Before that WORD, there was nothing but tohu wa bohu.

The Father created, Deur 32:4.
Of course...with the SPIRIT and the WORD.

The verse you cite is totally non-sequitur...but the next one describes what happens to the inventors: "Dt 32:5 5His people have acted corruptly toward Him; the spot on them is not that of His children, but of a perverse and crooked generation.…" I'd say that one is spot on, and Moses nailed the generations that missed the hour of His visitation, and were forced to invent.
You're boring me.
Like the blind trying to "watch" a movie. I totally understand.

It's a sign Jesus isn't the God. He has knees.
Or that He knows more than you, and understands better...He also has eyes aflame, and a sword/tongue.

I could care less.
I'm sure you could...today. Understanding is not your forte, is it? But one day your knee will bow, and your tongue will confess. You will learn to care. That's heartening.

[quote
Who created your gods? The Mormons?[/quote]You must be a Mormon...you're so fixated by them. Did they wear the right linen underwear when they knocked on your door?

That's your problem. Not mine. Your god is physical and created. You've finally admitted it.
Your approach is similar to the atheists. The universe, the physical creation, has always existed. In your case, your physical gods have always existed.
Nope.
In a vision. Who created your gods, and whose the hair dresser?
Yours is created.
I'm boring you???? :roflmao: You have a single invented non-argument. This is the best you can do.

You need to understand the different way terms are used, and you don't.
Woah...well...that sure zips my chops...Well done. Random claims are all you need for authority. I just showed you, quoting the Tenakh, what the terms mean, and that for you they are indistinguishable and meaningless...See above, and learn how the terms are clearly delineated throughout the Tenakh.

3 men.
3 men.
No, that would be the natural forces in Psalm 104:3, etc.
"Etc"...that about covers your Tenakh, or what remains after the scissors snipped the pesky inconveniences.

Your god is created.
Your god is invented.

No, I've told you otherwise. The physical image and likeness belongs to the aspects of nature. The rulership, godly attributes, reasoning, are the "spiritual" image that God gave mankind.
Your claims are lacking scripture and substance. "Spiritual image" is describable image. Your approved description is only partial.
So, why do you continue to be disingenuous of what I've said?
Weird that you ask me about "disingenuousness." Read your posts.

No...just read this one...You have defined disingenuousness...you've run out of argument and credibility.

See above. Your gods are capable of corruption, and dying. That's about it.
Elohim is not capable of corruption. Mortality is capable of corruption. My ElohimEchad are capable of salvation and also rose from the dead. Death, brought on by the first Adam, was forever destroyed by the Last Adam. Mortality was reclothed again in immortality...once and for all. Death has no more sting...

You definitely don't understand what I've said.
You do not believe in spirits as they are described, or in the spiritual realm. You have invented an alternative out of your experience, or the lack thereof, and surmise that satisfies the requirements you have put on your invented god. You do not believe in angels...you haven't really spoken of your concept of "resurrection", though we know the Sadducees did not believe in it...and you have accepted their fake news description of the resurrection, because you have to if you're going to continue to deny your Messiah right up to His return, where, as it is written, you will look on Him. I've understood what you said, and don't really care about what you have not said. It's enough that you've taken instruction from their post-resurrection lies.

?.
No, that's your problem. You believe in physically created gods.
No...you have repetitively reiterated this nonsense, because you are incapable of comprehending what I actually have said. When you are stuck as you are in your "physical" world, there is no more point adding to your confusion. At some point, it must have become too tedious to even try to help the blind Sadducees. That's why they WERE SAD, you see.

Ask your physical tzelem and plural gods.
See above. You can't see.

See above.
Good idea.

Rotfl... why do you bow to what bows?
Why do I submit to ONE Who came to serve? Because the Last shall be First, and the First shall be last...and the blind will see, but those who think they see will be confounded by blindness.

It's simple, actually
The prophecies are captured in Tanakh. Where's Jesus?
He is the WORD, the Tenakh made flesh. Why can't you answer a simple question. God does nothing but that he tells His prophets in advance. Where are your prophets? Or has your invention stopped doing altogether because you missed the hour of His visitation?

Visions and dreams. Why do you avoid that the NT says no one has seen God, and that He's invisible?
Because I read the NT as if it were TRUTH, and it says, "The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we have SEEN His Glory.

Everyone that's read about it knows that visions and riddles are just that.
Visions involve seeing...and describing the reality seen...Everyone that understands the concept knows that...
 
I'm saying that the afterlife is utterly, utterly irrelevant to why we obey God. And yes, the notion of the world to come happened in Babylon. There was no such notion back when the Torah was written. So the concept of an afterlife evolved over time.
You're inventing again...No...you're really "disinventing."

Abraham: 8And at a ripe old age he breathed his last and died, old and contented, and was gathered to his people.

You have the breath/spirit, the body to dust...and the soul to his people. We know Abraham's cadaver was placed beside Sarah in the tomb he bought for her. We even know where that tomb is to this day. I've been there. There were no "people." Abraham went to where his forbears rest, (as Samuel described the rest.)

Same for the rest:

Ishmael: Ishmael lived a total of 137 years. Then he breathed his last and died, and was gathered to his people.

Yitzhak: Then he breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people, old and full of years.

Jacob concerning Joseph's fake death: All his sons and daughters tried to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted. "No," he said. "I will go down to Sheol mourning for my son." So his father wept for him.

Jacob's instructions: Then Jacob instructed them, "I am about to be gathered to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite.

The actual death of Jacob: And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the spirit, and was gathered unto his people.

The concept of Sheol is entirely WORD of God, the part you ignore because you have never been taught "the real deal". Jacob yields his spirit to the Father, his body goes to the grave...and his soul to his people. This is Jewish TRUTH, ignored because of the invention that was necessary post resurrection, after the Jews missed the hour of their visitation. You have merely adopted as your own the error they enforce upon themselves. Samuel's return at the behest of the witch at En Dor was no fairy tale. Read it and try to understand what you have missed.
 
Except when there is no temple, since it is unlawful to offer sacrifice anywhere else. We go by the instructions of Hosea 14:2 "The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices)." This is why Jews pray the same three times during the day as the temple offerings.
This is your constant claim that Hosea abrogated the Law? I see this as an escape mechanism. It does not line up with a replacement, but...it must seem right to your eyes.

The standard has been forcibly reset to the days of the Judges...no king, no prophet, no priest.
 
Not at all. the Tanakh discusses over and over the b'nei Yisrael, children of Israel. This is a tribal people, not a race.

The fact that Hitler believed Jews were a race does not make it so, and I'm shocked that you would use him as an authority in the matter.
You understand neither tribe nor race...Abraham fathered a race. Tribe is steps down from race. Judah is tribal. If your lineage not from Abraham...you're not in the race. Simple as that. Israel was not a melting pot. Neither was Canaan, and that is history.
 
No, not at all. Saying that visions are only symbols and cannot be taken literally does not undermine Daniel's authority. Actually teaching that visions are literally true is what distorts Daniel.
It means you tell god what you think is real, and how correct you are in your invention. That's all you have. Daniel did not see, because you decided he could not see what he saw.
 
Your presumption is mind-numbing...The Son of Adam is a title, handed down with the authority of Adam. Kingship and dominion are given to him...
It's a title that isn't divine, man at his highest status. Like Ezekiel was son of man.

Sorry...I bolded, italicized, underlined, and enlarged the word...YOU CANNOT SEE. But you're quite capable of confirming Isaiah's word concerning you. Well done.
You cannot read.

Or the Ancient of Days' hair.
Wool metaphor denoting pureness.

Learn grammar...The masculine form is never exclusive. Only the feminine form is. If I say "Tous les Français", all the French, male and female are included. If I say, "Toutes les franchises...", it's women only. I'm never required to say, "Tous les Français et toutes les Françaises." That's how language works...any language that has not eschewed gender construction.
Generally, but since we know that Ruth was allowed into congregation of Israel, and the subject of Levirate marriage, you're wrong. That's why you need the Jewish judges to help you. ;)

Your invention might well have instructed Israel to intermarry, and take Moabites as wives...Elohim never did. Our-Gods-Who-Are-One warned against it.
Actually, God allowed it and Messiah will descend from the lineage.

Above has too much error. A Jew gains his Jewish lineage from his mother, not his father.
I'm speaking of tribal lineage.

Obed would not have been Jewish according to your invention.
See above.

Nope...shows that there is a "Time of the Gentiles" where Jerusalem is trampled down for a season, and where Israel wallows, as you make clear, in blindness and jealousy until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
Actually, Daniel 9 speaks of this, but there's no jealousy. Of course the apostate Paul says lots of things.


Something is falling short...that's clear. Eyesight needs spectacles, at times...
Check the logs in your eyes.
And ministers/servants and flames of fire...Even the Angel of the Lord!
Yep, but not the LORD.

He comes as Three at times, then Two...He eats, drinks...and goes up into the flames on the altar. He's a pillar of fire at night. Smoke at day.
Actually, this ia funny. 3 bodies for your 3 gods. And you said only one body. ;)

Welll....yes. He did. The incarnation required that...and every bodily function. Swaddling clothes were necessary for the Baby. His eyes and tongue and knees are quite different now, and His thigh has His name on it! Yep.
Then Elijah makes fun of your gods. He's still bowing as all of creation will do.

The Prophet Paul, teacher of righteousness, rightly calls this a stumbling block for you...He's right again.
And Tanakh rightly calls Paul a false prophet, and cut-off.

As I said. It's not time for you knee to bow or your tongue to confess, yet...but you will recall this explanation and it shall make sense. It's the way you and all are created. When the flesh dominates, it's impossible to see any spiritual reality. It must be make-believe and phantasmagoric invention.
Yes, you and Jesus will remember to bow to the one true God.

It's clear we bear His image...and it's clear about the hair and the thrones and the sitting, too..
It's clear you accept a created god. Pity.

So you do admit that, as God is, you are like in body and soul and spirit...Created in His image and likeness, and therefore easily described in three functional dimensions. One being of three. Good.
God doesn't have a body. Nor do we have the same soul or spirit. He is God. We aren't. That would be polytheism.

Actually...your own grammar fails every time you seek to argue by non-existent authority.
Actually, I'm aware you don't know any Hebrew. You've admitted it before.

OK...Then don't be a hypocrite.
Actually, I've pointed out your problem here.

The latter is clearly true, as the prophet pointed out as he taught righteousness. Blindness prevents sight.
Get the logs out of your eyes.

So your elohim have hair?
No, my God isn't physical. But, we know yours is, and created.
 
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