Who came up with the idea that Mormons have to earn eternal life?

[Mesenja]

Mormons like to take verses out of context to try to prove their own agenda. That chapter is talking about Christ, but they would like to conveniently disregard that.​

Chapter 7​

The Melchizedek Priesthood brings exaltation and administers the gospel—It is received with an oath and covenant—The superiority of the Melchizedek Priesthood over the Aaronic Priesthood is explained—Salvation comes through the intercession of Christ.​

 

[brotherofJared]

Genesis 3:24
24 He drove out the humans, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a sword flaming and turning to guard the way to the tree of life


1 Kings 6:29
He carved the walls of the house all around about with carved engravings of cherubim, palm trees, and open flowers, in the inner and outer rooms.
1 Kings 7:19-20
19 Now the capitals that were on the tops of the pillars in the vestibule were of lily-work, four cubits high. 20 The capitals were on the two pillars and also above the rounded projection that was beside the latticework; there were two hundred pomegranates in rows all around, and so with the other capital.
1 Kings 7:49
49 the lampstands of pure gold, five on the south side and five on the north, in front of the inner sanctuary; the flowers, the lamps, and the tongs, of gold;
Psalm 92:12–13
12 The righteous flourish like the palm tree
and grow like a cedar in Lebanon.
13 They are planted in the house of the Lord;
they flourish in the courts of our God.

As we have seen, there are numerous connections between the temple and the Garden of Eden, and there are many ways we can interpret these parallels. It is clear that the temple was meant to recreate Eden within Israel. Garden imagery abounded in the temple: palm trees, lilies, pomegranates, flowers, lions, and oxen were represented everywhere, and the branches of the golden lampstands would have created a virtual forest within the hêkāl (“the Holy Place”). The bronze serpent could be seen within the temple precincts, and the Holy of Holies—the ultimate source of life—was guarded by two giant cherubim. In this garden temple would have stood the priest, representing both God and man as Adam does in Eden. The Garden of Eden, the Ancient Temple, and Receiving a New Name Alex Douglas
​

I'm sure all this goes over the heads of our clueless critics who seemed to be more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.

This phrase, "temple was meant to recreate Eden" isn't quite right. However, the garden of Eden and the creation epic is closely tied to the temple, but the temple was never intended to "recreate" Eden.

 

[Mesenja]

I'm sure all this goes over the heads of our clueless critics who seemed to be more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.

This phrase, "temple was meant to recreate Eden" isn't quite right. However, the garden of Eden and the creation epic is closely tied to the temple, but the temple was never intended to "recreate" Eden.​

I am more than sure of this. It is an indisputable fact. ​

 

[Magdalena]

I'm sure all this goes over the heads of our clueless critics who seemed to be more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.

This phrase, "temple was meant to recreate Eden" isn't quite right. However, the garden of Eden and the creation epic is closely tied to the temple, but the temple was never intended to "recreate" Eden.

Since when is following Christ being ”more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.”

 

[Mesenja]

1 Corinthians 2:1
And I, having come to you, brothers, did not come in accordance with superiority of speech or of wisdom while proclaiming to you the mystery (sacrament, ordinance, secret ritual) of God. 6 Yet we are speaking wisdom among the mature (teleoi, the mature, or the initiated), but a wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age— the ones being brought-to-nothing.
​

 

[Mesenja]

Since when is following Christ being more “entertained by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.”​

2 Timothy 4:3
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts.​

 

[brotherofJared]

I am more than sure of this. It is an indisputable fact. ​

I'm not sure which aspect you're talking about.

That the temple is connected with the Garden of Eden? or That the "temple was meant to recreate Eden".

The last statement doesn't ring true with me because it isn't what the temple is "meant" to do. The temple was meant to bring us all back into the presence of God, into the Holy of Holies. The Garden of Eden, in mortality, is represented by the priesthood's greater light and knowledge, but it is only a waypoint, a layover, to a higher plane.

Your references allude to some things that are not readily discerned from reading the Bible, such as the brazen serpent. It is apparent that others went into the Holy of Holies, if for no other reason, at least it was attended for housekeeping purposes, but we know that the prophets and kings held the Melchizedek Priesthood and therefore must have been anointed and walked through all the steps that we do today, including arriving at the veil to the Holy of Holies and being admitted.

I believe I can hear the screeching of our critics already that no one was permitted within the veil. But I don't believe that's true. It's pretty obvious that David received the endowment. I'm sure that someone was qualified to administer the endowment and that in order for him to administer it, they had to have received it as well.

Further, the fact that God told David he was going to take his wives and give them to another, which God never did in David's lifetime, indicates that all of his wives were sealed to him for eternity. I don't see how he would have passed up entering the Holy of Holies.

But my point was, that all of the references you gave have a clear connection to the temple outside of and beyond the simple idea that they built a temple to have bar-b-ques at the expense of the people.

 

[Mesenja]

I'm not sure which aspect you're talking about. That the temple is connected with the Garden of Eden? or That the "temple was meant to recreate Eden".

The last statement doesn't ring true with me because it isn't what the temple is "meant" to do. The temple was meant to bring us all back into the presence of God, into the Holy of Holies. The Garden of Eden, in mortality, is represented by the priesthood's greater light and knowledge, but it is only a waypoint, a layover, to a higher plane.

Your references allude to some things that are not readily discerned from reading the Bible, such as the brazen serpent. It is apparent that others went into the Holy of Holies, if for no other reason, at least it was attended for housekeeping purposes, but we know that the prophets and kings held the Melchizedek Priesthood and therefore must have been anointed and walked through all the steps that we do today, including arriving at the veil to the Holy of Holies and being admitted.

I believe I can hear the screeching of our critics already that no one was permitted within the veil. But I don't believe that's true. It's pretty obvious that David received the endowment. I'm sure that someone was qualified to administer the endowment and that in order for him to administer it, they had to have received it as well.

Further, the fact that God told David he was going to take his wives and give them to another, which God never did in David's lifetime, indicates that all of his wives were sealed to him for eternity. I don't see how he would have passed up entering the Holy of Holies.

But my point was, that all of the references you gave have a clear connection to the temple outside of and beyond the simple idea that they built a temple to have bar-b-ques at the expense of the people.​

My previous comment referred to the screeching of our clueless critics.

brotherofJared said:I'm sure all this goes over the heads of our clueless critics who seemed to be more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.​

 

[Mesenja]

Revelation 7:9-14​

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation​

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
​

 

[Mesenja]

Romans 8:16-17,32
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
​

 

[Mesenja]

1 Corinthians 15:49
49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Philippians 3:20-21
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Hebrews 12:23
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,​

 

[Mesenja]

Colossians 1:15
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
2 Corinthians 4:4
4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

 

[Mesenja]

Further, the fact that God told David he was going to take his wives and give them to another, which God never did in David's lifetime, indicates that all of his wives were sealed to him for eternity. I don't see how he would have passed up entering the Holy of Holies.​

Genesis 2:16-17
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Genesis 2:24-25
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Genesis 3:22
22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Matthew 19:6
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.
John 20:31
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing, ye might have life through His name.
1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless, neither is the man without the woman, nor the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Galatians 3:26-28
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female; for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 2:13
13 But now in Christ Jesus, ye who once were far off have been brought nigh by the blood of Christ.


​

 

[RCM]

Hebrews 7:11​

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?​

τάξις (taxis)​

Strong: G5010
GK: G5423
order, regular disposition, arrangement; order, series, succession, Luke 1:8; an order, distinctive class, as of priests, Hebrews 5:6, 10; 6:20; 7:11(2x), 17; order, good order, 1 Corinthians 14:40; orderliness, well-regulated conduct, Colossians 2:5
See everywhere taxis appears in the New Testament via BillMounce.com.
See everywhere taxis appears in the New Testament via BillMounce.com.
Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament
Mounce Concise Greek-English Dictionary of the New Testament edited by William D. Mounce. Copyright ©2011 by William D. Mounce. All rights reserved.
​

Do you hold the Aaronic Priesthood and the Melchizedek Priesthood?

Do you know what the qualifications are?

First of all it is not called the Aaronic Priesthood, it was called the Levitical Priesthood, and you had to be of the Tribe of Levi and a descendant of Aaron to be able to hold it, do you qualify, No!


How convenient that you didn't post more of Hebrews 7, so let me do it for you,

Hebrews 7:11-17
11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.
13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests.
15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek,
16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life.
17 For it is attested of Him, "YOU ARE A PRIEST forever ACCORDING to the order of MELCHIZEDEK."


The Melchizedek Priesthood is speaking of Christ and the lineage of Judah


Are you of the lineage of Judah? No!



From a Biblical perspective, it is impossible for you to hold both priesthoods


So, don't quote the Bible to support your heresy!



RCM

 

[RCM]

Mormons like to take verses out of context to try to prove their own agenda. That chapter is talking about Christ, but they would like to conveniently disregard that.

Thanks,


RCM

 

[RCM]

1 Corinthians 2:1
And I, having come to you, brothers, did not come in accordance with superiority of speech or of wisdom while proclaiming to you the mystery (sacrament, ordinance, secret ritual) of God. 6 Yet we are speaking wisdom among the mature (teleoi, the mature, or the initiated), but a wisdom not of this age, nor of the rulers of this age— the ones being brought-to-nothing.
​

It is amazing to me how inept and corrupt mormons interpret the Bible so as to justify heretical beliefs and false religion


You interpret it as secret temple ordinances? Pathetic!


If you read Paul in context at all, mystery refers to Christ, and wisdom refers to Christ!

Ephesians 3:4 By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ

Colossians 2:2-3 the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.



RCM

 

[RCM]

but we know that the prophets and kings held the Melchizedek Priesthood

No Biblical Scriptural support, just mormon heresy

I believe I can hear the screeching of our critics already that no one was permitted within the veil. But I don't believe that's true. It's pretty obvious that David received the endowment. I'm sure that someone was qualified to administer the endowment and that in order for him to administer it, they had to have received it as well.

More mormon heresy without Biblical Scripture support

Further, the fact that God told David he was going to take his wives and give them to another, which God never did in David's lifetime, indicates that all of his wives were sealed to him for eternity. I don't see how he would have passed up entering the Holy of Holies.

What complete heretical fabrication!


2 Samuel 12:11-12 (Prophecy)
11 "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.
12 'Indeed you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, and under the sun.'"

2 Samuel 16:20-23 (Fulfillment)
20 Then Absalom said to Ahithophel, "Give your advice. What shall we do?"
21 Ahithophel said to Absalom, "Go in to your father's concubines, whom he has left to keep the house; then all Israel will hear that you have made yourself odious to your father. The hands of all who are with you will also be strengthened."
22 So they pitched a tent for Absalom on the roof, and Absalom went in to his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel.
23 The advice of Ahithophel, which he gave in those days, was as if one inquired of the word of God; so was all the advice of Ahithophel regarded by both David and Absalom.



RCM

 

[RCM]

My previous comment referred to the screeching of our clueless critics.

brotherofJared said:I'm sure all this goes over the heads of our clueless critics who seemed to be more "entertained" by worldly things that appear to be much like the golden calf that children of Israel fashioned for themselves.​

You need to address these facts,


satan is in the ceremonies in your LDS temple, therefore your temples are unclean


no unclean thing was allowed in the Old Testament Jewish Temple!


The mormon god has satan for a son and satan is in your temple!



RCM

 

[RCM]

Revelation 7:9-14​

A Multitude from the Great Tribulation​

9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” 11 All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying:

“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”

14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”

So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
​

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!


RCM

 

[RCM]

Romans 8:16-17,32
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?
​

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


RCM