Witnessing To A Roman Catholic . . . . .
- Thread starter RayneBeau
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Bonnie
Super Member
"For it is by grace you are saved; through faith--and that is not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God, and NOT by works, so no one may boast."
If we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, and not by works--what else is there left to be saved by?
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His One and Only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES in Him will not perish, but have eternal life."
What does it mean to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ?
We can teach the Gospel in our everyday lives in our relationships with others, should the opportunity arise. Would not Jesus want us to do so?
We all can have that informal commission to preach and teach, without becoming ministers, as my husband did. He gave up a promising post-military career teaching his dental specialty in a dental school to become an LCMS pastor. The urge to become one was so strong, he could not deny it, though he did try, for awhile. But God got him, and he became part of God's army.
So, I think there are 2 kinds of commissions: formal and informal.
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A new day
Super Member
Going to seminary doesn’t make one qualified for spiritual leadership. Atheists who do not even believe God exists, have studied in a seminary, and have also stood at the pulpit, giving sermon's. Not someone I would want, standing at the pulpit, giving a sermon that they don't even believe themselves. They do it for the wrong reasons.
That is so true, it is useless if they do not know Jesus and are not lead by the HS.
what happened to their hearts prior to vs 38? Acts 2 doesn't start with vs 38 in my bible.
I could be wrong here, but from what I've seen so far, this isn't the case with Catholic seminaries. Atheists who openly admit they're atheists have graduated and been placed into positions of leadership in churches. As you say, this doesn't qualify one for spiritual leadership, but too many churches are sorely in need of pastors so beggars can't be choosers. In all honesty, I would much rather listen to an honest atheist preach the unadulterated gospel than listen to priest who is not only destined to hell himself, but eagerly leading others to follow him as well.
There's a wonderful story about a Baptist preacher who had been leading his congregation for over 15 years when one day while preaching the gospel, he suddenly became acutely aware that he had just received the gospel. He abruptly stopped preaching and announced that he had just received salvation. He was referring to that seemingly endless distance from one's mind to their heart. In other words, one can fully understand the gospel, yet never receive it in their heart. They can preach the unadulterated gospel yet never be saved themselves.
And yet God can easily work this for His own purposes. I see it as similar to those who feed, clothe and shelter the homeless as a means of salvation. They're damned, but nonetheless, the homeless, hungry and naked are taken care of to the glory of God.
Arch Stanton
Well-known member
?
pilgrim
Well-known member
So priests are destined for hell? And everyone who follows him?
Be careful what you wish for.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Absolutely correct.
But what does this have to do with my question? I am not asking about formal commissioning from some sect or seminary when I ask about the mandate. I am asking where your apostolic mandate comes from.
Unless the father draws them away from their deception, how could it be otherwise?
The blind leading the blind can only end up in a ditch.
It's an observation. You're projecting again. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
Be careful what you wish for.
pilgrim
Well-known member
The blind and the lost are those outside the Church.
Bonnie
Super Member
Those who believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, trusting in Him to save them, ARE THE CHURCH.
pilgrim
Well-known member
If they trust Him enough to be in the Church He Himself established.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
You know, you fundamentalists worry more about who is or is not going to Hell. Why not worry about your own soul? Have you ever thought about that? You all arrogantly presume your crown of glory awaits and spend more time sitting in judgement of others than looking at yourselves and your own lives. True Christians do not run around and say "These people are going to Hell, these people are not." Such arrogance.
Let me tell you: I have seen Muslims that are more Christian than many purported Christians. You fundamentalists fail to grasp that real Christianity isn't in memorizing a bunch of Bible verses and then quoting them on command, real Christianity isn't about being the most fundamentalist of all, real Christianity is not an after life insurance policy. Real Christianity is in one's life and the way they live it.
You fundamentalists are all about TALKING about Jesus, and TALKING about Christianity. Truth is--don't tell me about Jesus. SHOW me Jesus in your life. Don't talk about Christianity, SHOW me Christianity in your life.
I may have little respect for Protestant fundamentalists, but one thing I would never do is suggest they are all going to Hell. That just isn't for me to say. I am not the judge.
Yes, this I know. That is why I do not accept you or any other Protestant and their authority.
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believers do trust Him, which is why HE put them into His church, which is not the rcc.
Acts 2 - kjv
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Ad Hominem. and Strawman argument. I'm not a fundamentalist, nor am I worrying.
Why would the damned feel any need to worry? The damned are oblivious to their fate.
More than you will ever know. Regardless, this isn't about me or you.
Again, you're attributing behavior that is not evident in any of my posts.
As you judge so too shall you be judged. If you care to look at what I actually posted, I am simply asking a question which you have yet to address. Bringing up logical fallacies only spotlights your reluctance to answer a simple question.
Well put, Judgmental much?
Another good point, and one which convicts anyone who has the ears to hear it.
Your previous comments do not suggest they're going to the head of the table at Christ's banquet.
You're just a witness for the prosecution. You do know who the prosecution is, right? He's also known as "the Accuser".
Yet you are incapable of actually noting that I am not a Protestant, nor do I recognize their claimed authority either. But then that's neither here nor there as this is a subject within the context of the "Roman Catholicism" thread.
I would be right behind you to tear down the last vestige of Protestantism, but alas I'm not Catholic so I am not at liberty to accommodate you in such a task.
Assuming authority is not proof of authority.
leonard03782
Well-known member
Because we do not want to see anyone go there.
What makes you think that we don't?
We are not judging you per se. We are judging you false beliefs.
There in no one more arrogant than a man who usurps the titles of the Holy Trinity. Normal people would ask why someone would think that they are going hell. rc's double down on their false religion without a question crossing their minds.
Walking the walk is important. However, faith is more important.
Talking to rc's is a waste of time. They do not want to know about Jesus, They would rather spend their time worshipping Mary.
I am sure unbelievers would be thankful to you for not showing/telling them how to stay out of hell.
We are not the ones who have a false self declaration of authority hanging on the wall behind our desks.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
When fundamentalists say "Priests are going to Hell" that is a judgement on the priest, not the false beliefs.
For example: I condemn abortion---not people who have had one. Judgement of the PERSON is up to God. I judge acts, not people.
Who usurps the titles of the Holy Trinity?
You think I have never thought of Hell? I have. But my motivation for worshipping Jesus is that he is worthy of worship. My motivation for worshipping God is love--not after life insurance. God is worthy of love and worship--whether or not I am saved. If I were to be in Hell, God would still be worthy of love and worthy of worship. God would still be holy, good and just.
When you encounter Jesus, you cannot but help worship Him and love Him. Once you encounter Jesus, you realize HE is the reason for everything. Hell really doesn't figure into to it--that is to say--you are so overcome with his glory you just don't think about anything else because it does not matter. What is Hell? What difference does it make? Jesus is all that matters. That hymn "Turn your eyes upon Jesus..and the things of earth will grow faintly dim, in the light of His glory and love." Well--those ain't just pious words. They are true, more true than anyone realizes.
You can't walk the walk without Faith.
Right--yeah---Mary worship. And Sola Scriptura means we aren't allow to have ANY tradition, and it also denies the authority of the Church and general revelation too.
Yeah--I can falsely caricaturize your beliefs as good as you can mine.
You know--if you were a real Christian, you know what you would NOT do? You would not continue to falsely caricaturize Catholicism for the sake of the Gospel. You see, the Gospel speaks for itself. It does not need you to distort the teachings of Catholicism in order to assist it.
Christianity is about a way of life-----not rewards and punishments. Not that I deny Hell. I believe it exists, and I believe it is a real possibility for people. My point---is that----Christianity is about Jesus. God is not a divine Santa Clause who knows when we are naughty and nice, gives us lumps of coal when we are bad and presents when we are good. The way you fundamentalists present the Gospel, it is no wonder atheists make fun of us. and think we are all idiots.
1Thess521
Well-known member
The Pilgrim's Progress from 1678 is an acceptable approach.
Just tell them........
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IGNORANCE: "My beliefs are fine—in spite of all that you have just said."
CHRISTIAN: "What exactly then, do you believe?"
IGNORANCE: "I believe that Christ died for sinners—and that I shall be justified before God from the curse, through His gracious acceptance of my obedience to His law. To state it another way, Christ makes my religious duties acceptable to His Father, by virtue of His merits—and so I shall be justified."
CHRISTIAN: "Let me give an answer to your beliefs on this issue.
"First, you believe with an imaginary faith—for this kind of faith is nowhere described in the Word.
"Secondly, you believe with a false faith—because you trust that you are justified by your own righteousness, rather than the righteousness of Christ.
"Thirdly, your beliefs make Christ a justifier of your actions—but not of your person. You think that your person is justified for your action's sake,
which is false.
"Therefore, your faith is deceitful—even such as will leave you under divine wrath, in the day of Almighty God's judgment. For true justifying faith causes the soul, being sensible of its lost condition by the law, to flee for refuge unto Christ's righteousness. It is not that Christ graciously makes a person's obedience acceptable to God—but true faith accepts Christ's righteousness by His personal obedience to the law, in doing and suffering for us what that law required at our hands. The soul, thus covered in Christ's righteousness and presented as spotless before God is accepted by God and acquitted from condemnation."
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