Are we blood bought?

[Janice Bower]

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 7
21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 2 3Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 7
21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 2 3Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

Add to this Acts 20:28 "...the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."

 

[docphin5]

You guys take things too literal. Do you think human sacrifice is what Paul is talking about? Like the Aztecs who sacrificed humans on their altars for their god? Is this what Christianity has become, a modern version of the Aztec religion where human sacrifice is required to appease some angry god?

“Blood” in classical Greece was associated with the life force of a being also with soul. Paul wrote in Greek. Therefore, If the Holy Spirit indwelled a spiritual entity in heaven who then rebelled against the absolute good God, then the Holy Spirit, aka, Yeshua, shed that life force, —shed his “blood”, to make a path for us to take his place. The life force (i.e. blood) shed of the spiritual entity is the serpent of old who transmuted himself into material things and now tries to take us down with him via the inordinate desires of flesh and irrational ideas of the mind, aka, error (eg, vicarious atonement through human sacrifice).

No human sacrifice is necessary for salvation, just the operation of the Holy Spirit in us. What Paul is describing is heavenly events and The Most High God’s (The El’s) willingness to give up one heavenly being (in rebellion) in order to save many (in obedience to the Spirit of Yeshua).

 

[Alive]

Answer: yes

 

[Alexander the adequate]

You guys take things too literal. Do you think human sacrifice is what Paul is talking about? Like the Aztecs who sacrificed humans on their altars for their god? Is this what Christianity has become, a modern version of the Aztec religion where human sacrifice is required to appease some angry god?

“Blood” in classical Greece was associated with the life force of a being also with soul. Paul wrote in Greek. Therefore, If the Holy Spirit indwelled a spiritual entity in heaven who then rebelled against the absolute good God, then the Holy Spirit, aka, Yeshua, shed that life force, —shed his “blood”, to make a path for us to take his place. The life force (i.e. blood) shed of the spiritual entity is the serpent of old who transmuted himself into material things and now tries to take us down with him via the inordinate desires of flesh and irrational ideas of the mind, aka, error (eg, vicarious atonement through human sacrifice).

No human sacrifice is necessary for salvation, just the operation of the Holy Spirit in us. What Paul is describing is heavenly events and The Most High God’s (The El’s) willingness to give up one heavenly being (in rebellion) in order to save many (in obedience to the Spirit of Yeshua).

Can I understand this post to be an indication that you do not embrace Christianity? The blood sacrifice of Jesus is foundational to salvation and all of Christianity. If you reject the blood sacrifice, there is no offering for your sin,

 

[docphin5]

Can I understand this post to be an indication that you do not embrace Christianity? The blood sacrifice of Jesus is foundational to salvation and all of Christianity. If you reject the blood sacrifice, there is no offering for your sin,

Did you understand a word I wrote? If Christianity is based on an understanding of heavenly events influencing our material world then Christ’s sacrifice occurred in heaven where there is no human “blood.” (1) Therefore, Christ’s “blood” means something else than human blood. And it does! According to classical concepts or ideas. It means soul or life force, in this case, a heavenly one.

Therefore, I know that Yeshua, aka, the “Wisdom of God”, made one sacrifice in heaven, for us. The “blood” he shed in heaven was the spiritual body-soul in rebellion to the Most High God,

1) “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this [material] creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.” (Hebrews 9:11)

Please note that Christ made his sacrifice “not of this creation” but by “his own blood” IN HEAVEN, “in the greater and more perfect tent”, where there is no human blood. Clearly, Christ’s “blood” is being contrasted with animal or human “blood.”

The Gospel stories are esoteric stories containing gnostic truths, specifically the death and resurrection of a celestial being. If you believe them in error as literal events to the point of claiming God demands human sacrifice to appease his anger and I understand them for what they were intended to mean then maybe I am more Christian than you can imagine.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Did you understand a word I wrote? If Christianity is based on an understanding of heavenly events influencing our material world then Christ’s sacrifice occurred in heaven where there is no human “blood.” (1) Therefore, Christ’s “blood” means something else than human blood. And it does! According to classical concepts or ideas. It means soul or life force, in this case, a heavenly one.

Therefore, I know that Yeshua, aka, the “Wisdom of God”, made one sacrifice in heaven, for us. The “blood” he shed in heaven was the spiritual body-soul in rebellion to the Most High God,

1) “But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this [material] creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.” (Hebrews 9:11)

Please note that Christ made his sacrifice “not of this creation” but by “his own blood” IN HEAVEN, “in the greater and more perfect tent”, where there is no human blood. Clearly, Christ’s “blood” is being contrasted with animal or human “blood.”

The Gospel stories are esoteric stories containing gnostic truths, specifically the death and resurrection of a celestial being. If you believe them in error as literal events to the point of claiming God demands human sacrifice to appease his anger and I understand them for what they were intended to mean then maybe I am more Christian than you can imagine.

Did you notice in Hebrews 9:11 the word "means"?
He entered the Holy place in Heaven, by means of His blood which had been shed on earth.
This is different that what you are saying that the sacrifice was made in heaven. It was made so that He could enter heaven.

But you are claiming to be Christian. You are bought with His blood?

Your mystical blood does not exist, as creatures in heaven are not flesh and blood, and no, there is no indication at all by the writers that they are conveying hidden truths. Read Luke's explanation of how he composed the book of Luke and you see that it is totally a practical, earthly story

 

[docphin5]

Did you notice in Hebrews 9:11 the word "means"?
He entered the Holy place in Heaven, by means of His blood which had been shed on earth.
This is different that what you are saying that the sacrifice was made in heaven. It was made so that He could enter heaven.

But you are claiming to be Christian. You are bought with His blood?

Your mystical blood does not exist, as creatures in heaven are not flesh and blood, and no, there is no indication at all by the writers that they are conveying hidden truths. Read Luke's explanation of how he composed the book of Luke and you see that it is totally a practical, earthly story

The passage plainly states his sacrifice was not on earth, not by things made by hand, not by blood of animals (and definitely not human blood), but by the “blood” of a celestial being. Again, for the third time, because you apparently have a comprehension problem, back in classical times blood was interchangeable with soul or life force. Paul is not talking about hemoglobin but soul-body, in the case of Yeshua’s soul-spiritual body, aka, the celestial or cosmic “body of Christ” in whom we are members.

Moreover, how does one who holds all things together (Col 1:17), who sums up all things in heaven and earth (Eph 1:10), and who exists eternally in God, —how does he ”ENTER” (your word) what is contained WITHIN HIM, for the entire fullness of God, to include heaven, hell, angels, earth, humans, etc. dwells within him (Col. 1:19). Please explain how a supernal entity leaves and enters what is contained within him. You cannot, and you don’t care, because you just believe it. Par for the course, unfortunately for orthodoxy. No critical thinking skills whatsoever.

You can have the last word because I don’t argue over truth demonstrated by reason and evidence. People choose what they want to believe and that is their right.

Best of luck.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

The passage plainly states his sacrifice was not on earth, not by things made by hand, not by blood of animals (and definitely not human blood), but by the “blood” of a celestial being. Again, for the third time, because you apparently have a comprehension problem, back in classical times blood was interchangeable with soul or life force. Paul is not talking about hemoglobin but soul-body, in the case of Yeshua’s soul-spiritual body, aka, the celestial or cosmic “body of Christ” in whom we are members.

Moreover, how does one who holds all things together (Col 1:17), who sums up all things in heaven and earth (Eph 1:10), and who exists eternally in God, —how does he ”ENTER” (your word) what is contained WITHIN HIM, for the entire fullness of God, to include heaven, hell, angels, earth, humans, etc. dwells within him (Col. 1:19). Please explain how a supernal entity leaves and enters what is contained within him. You cannot, and you don’t care, because you just believe it. Par for the course, unfortunately for orthodoxy. No critical thinking skills whatsoever.

You can have the last word because I don’t argue over truth demonstrated by reason and evidence. People choose what they want to believe and that is their right.

Best of luck.

I understand feeling frustrated, when you think you are demonstrating a truth and someone cannot see it, or perhaps pretends not to see it.
For instance I had asked you if you were a Christian. No response
I asked you to consider certain words in the passage. No response
No where in the passage is there any language stating that Jesus died in Heaven. Creatures don't die in Heaven, so that interpretation is impossible.

Your interpretation is not related to what the passage states, it is something you concocted and force onto the verse.

Your question about How does Jesus enter what is contained within Him, is purely theoretical. In order to understand the ideas of God you must first trust that the Word is truth. If you argue against the Word because you think it is impossible, then you are unable to grasp what God is telling you.

 

[docphin5]

I understand feeling frustrated, when you think you are demonstrating a truth and someone cannot see it, or perhaps pretends not to see it.

Irrelevant

For instance I had asked you if you were a Christian. No response

irrelevant

I asked you to consider certain words in the passage. No response

My response considers every word in the passage.

No where in the passage is there any language stating that Jesus died in Heaven.

I never said Jesus died. I said Yeshua or the Holy Spirit was associated with a heavenly life-force or soul (the “blood” of Yeshua) who died. You are erroneously trying to project the mythical Jesus in the Gospels INTO heaven with human blood (and declaring it impossible) whereas, in Paul’s epistles Yeshua is associated with the Holy Spirit indwelling the saints. That is the same idea in Hebrews of Yeshua as Wisdom of the Most High God, that is, Wisdom indwelling the Son of God, aka, the Prexistent Man in heaven.
The author of Hebrews like Paul is describing heavenly events and you being unable to perceive it erroneously presume they must be talking about earthly events. Your frame of reference is on earth. Their frame of reference is in heaven.

Creatures don't die in Heaven, so that interpretation is impossible.

Humans don’t die in heaven but the “body of Christ” summed up as all things (ephesians 1:10) suffers and dies in all of us.

Your interpretation is not related to what the passage states, it is something you concocted and force onto the verse.

My explanation is based on Paul’s epistles describing the inner Jesus. He indwells my soul or life force (or “blood”) , therefore, my life force or soul is his life force or soul. My “blood” is his “blood.” In that sense, when I die, he dies in me. (It is the whole point of baptism to symbolize the underlying truth of our reality. We are one with him in death and resurrection.)

Paul says, “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”

Your question about How does Jesus enter what is contained within Him, is purely theoretical.

Not if one knows what Christ actually is.

In order to understand the ideas of God you must first trust that the Word is truth.

Don’t even go there. You wouldn’t know truth if it slapped you upside the head.

If you argue against the Word because you think it is impossible, then you are unable to grasp what God is telling you.

Lol

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Irrelevant

irrelevant

My response considers every word in the passage.

I never said Jesus died. I said Yeshua or the Holy Spirit was associated with a heavenly life-force or soul (the “blood” of Yeshua) who died. You are erroneously trying to project the mythical Jesus in the Gospels INTO heaven with human blood (and declaring it impossible) whereas, in Paul’s epistles Yeshua is associated with the Holy Spirit indwelling the saints. That is the same idea in Hebrews of Yeshua as Wisdom of the Most High God, that is, Wisdom indwelling the Son of God, aka, the Prexistent Man in heaven.
The author of Hebrews like Paul is describing heavenly events and you being unable to perceive it erroneously presume they must be talking about earthly events. Your frame of reference is on earth. Their frame of reference is in heaven.

Humans don’t die in heaven but the “body of Christ” summed up as all things (ephesians 1:10) suffers and dies in all of us.

My explanation is based on Paul’s epistles describing the inner Jesus. He indwells my soul or life force (or “blood”) , therefore, my life force or soul is his life force or soul. My “blood” is his “blood.” In that sense, when I die, he dies in me. (It is the whole point of baptism to symbolize the underlying truth of our reality. We are one with him in death and resurrection.)

Paul says, “I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”


Not if one knows what Christ actually is.

Don’t even go there. You wouldn’t know truth if it slapped you upside the head.

Lol

I do try to follow what you are writing and weigh it against scripture, but your style is difficult for me,
one thing is that the Bible does not teach that Jesus was a man before being conceived in Mary,
And I have seen convincing scriptural arguments, that after dearh Jesus was no longer a man, but that is a radical idea for the church

 

[docphin5]

I do try to follow what you are writing and weigh it against scripture, but your style is difficult for me,
one thing is that the Bible does not teach that Jesus was a man before being conceived in Mary,
And I have seen convincing scriptural arguments, that after dearh Jesus was no longer a man, but that is a radical idea for the church

The problem is not me, its the erroneous idea that the Gospel stories are historical events. It places in your hand a square peg, a square Jesus. The problem is that Jesus is round and fits into a round hole. So when I describe Jesus as round fitting perfectly in the round hole your brain does not compute. You are unable to put your square Jesus into the round hole I am describing. Simply, you have bad assumptions preventing you from seeing Jesus as I do.

I go by Paul’s epistles where Jesus is the Holy Spirit indwelling the souls of others as Wisdom, as a moral consciousness bearing virtues as fruits (Gal 5:22). The “body of Christ” is suffering earth or flesh, in all of us.. The cosmos was lifeless and lacking a moral consciousness until we came along, until Jesus arose in us.

In contrast, The Gospel stories are esoteric stories with a secret meaning originally intended for a small group of Jewish-Christians. They are not historical events. I posited the original meaning after investigating the gnostic literature which I posted elsewhere if you are curious (see below), if only for nothing else than to dispel the idea that human sacrifice somehow appeases an angry God. It doesn’t. It may help you understand where I am coming from. But IMO, The only sacrifice required by the Most High God, aka, “the El”, is obedience to his Holy Spirit, namely, the inner Jesus. Because the pre-existent heavenly Man was not obedient to Wisdom (his inner Jesus), he ended up suffering, consequently, his suffering became our suffering. Therefore, He lives and dies in us, in many; as we live and die in him, as one body, (1 cor 12:12, 27) on a universal scale, because he is the sum of all things (eph 1:10)

Possible esoteric meaning of Gospel stories (scroll to post #487)

(1 cor 12:12) ”For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit…(V 27) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.”

 

[Alexander the adequate]

The problem is not me, its the erroneous idea that the Gospel stories are historical events. It places in your hand a square peg, a square Jesus. The problem is that Jesus is round and fits into a round hole. So when I describe Jesus as round fitting perfectly in the round hole your brain does not compute. You are unable to put your square Jesus into the round hole I am describing. Simply, you have bad assumptions preventing you from seeing Jesus as I do.

I go by Paul’s epistles where Jesus is the Holy Spirit indwelling the souls of others as Wisdom, as a moral consciousness bearing virtues as fruits (Gal 5:22). The “body of Christ” is suffering earth or flesh, in all of us.. The cosmos was lifeless and lacking a moral consciousness until we came along, until Jesus arose in us.

In contrast, The Gospel stories are esoteric stories with a secret meaning originally intended for a small group of Jewish-Christians. They are not historical events. I posited the original meaning after investigating the gnostic literature which I posted elsewhere if you are curious (see below), if only for nothing else than to dispel the idea that human sacrifice somehow appeases an angry God. It doesn’t. It may help you understand where I am coming from. But IMO, The only sacrifice required by the Most High God, aka, “the El”, is obedience to his Holy Spirit, namely, the inner Jesus. Because the pre-existent heavenly Man was not obedient to Wisdom (his inner Jesus), he ended up suffering, consequently, his suffering became our suffering. Therefore, He lives and dies in us, in many; as we live and die in him, as one body, (1 cor 12:12, 27) on a universal scale, because he is the sum of all things (eph 1:10)

Possible esoteric meaning of Gospel stories (scroll to post #487)

(1 cor 12:12) ”For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit…(V 27) Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it.”

You have a strange idea that the Bible is a metaphorical story concocted by 60 writers over a 2000 year period.
The Bible relates historiacl fact, as well as truth metaphorically

 

[docphin5]

You have a strange idea that the Bible is a metaphorical story concocted by 60 writers over a 2000 year period.

Strange to you but not to the Essenes and the gnostic Christians when Christianity was developing from around 200 B.C. to 200 C.E. Arguably, the dearth of apostolic, prophetic writing began when their voices went silent. Arguably, there would be no scripture without their voices in the past describing abstract heavenly events in stories readily consumed by the masses.

The Bible relates historiacl fact, as well as truth metaphorically

Therein lies the crux of the matter, what is historical and what is metaphorical? I presume you think a dead human reassembling his human body after decomposing for three solar days is historical, right? Even though nothing in reality suggests that. Ahh, but it was written down 2,000 years ago, you say, therefore, it must be literal. Do you see the weakness of your position, the position of the many? Because IF it was written esoterically as much of the religious literature was written in that time, then you are believing in superstitions rather than the reality they describe.

I don't want to argue with you, simply because if you don't get it, and don't care to get it, then that is your choice, and I respect that. But I made a good faith effort to dispel the idea of human sacrifice being a requirement of God.
Best of luck.

 

[Stephen]

1 Corinthians 6
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Corinthians 7
21 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 2 3Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

To answer the titular question: Yes. We were once slaves to sin, but were purchased from that bondage to be slaves of righteousness.

God purchased you. God was not paid. He doesn't demand or receive payment from his children. He purchased his children and did the paying by means of his son.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Strange to you but not to the Essenes and the gnostic Christians when Christianity was developing from around 200 B.C. to 200 C.E. Arguably, the dearth of apostolic, prophetic writing began when their voices went silent. Arguably, there would be no scripture without their voices in the past describing abstract heavenly events in stories readily consumed by the masses.

Therein lies the crux of the matter, what is historical and what is metaphorical? I presume you think a dead human reassembling his human body after decomposing for three solar days is historical, right? Even though nothing in reality suggests that. Ahh, but it was written down 2,000 years ago, you say, therefore, it must be literal. Do you see the weakness of your position, the position of the many? Because IF it was written esoterically as much of the religious literature was written in that time, then you are believing in superstitions rather than the reality they describe.

I don't want to argue with you, simply because if you don't get it, and don't care to get it, then that is your choice, and I respect that. But I made a good faith effort to dispel the idea of human sacrifice being a requirement of God.
Best of luck.

the main issue in our communication, where we have a disconnect is our authority. My authority is the Bible, yours is yourself.
And just an interesting note. The dead body of jesus was not reassembled to form a new body. His new body was entirely different, not human, but from Heaven.

 

[docphin5]

the main issue in our communication, where we have a disconnect is our authority. My authority is the Bible, yours is yourself.

I like to think the Spirit of Truth can lead us too. Isn’t that his office?

And just an interesting note. The dead body of jesus was not reassembled to form a new body. His new body was entirely different, not human, but from Heaven.

Then why was the tomb allegedly empty? Why did God hide the old body if his new body was “entirely different”, as you claim?

You don’t have to answer. I am just making a point of what holding the Bible as the “authority” does for somebody.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

I like to think the Spirit of Truth can lead us too. Isn’t that his office?


Then why was the tomb allegedly empty? Why did God hide the old body if his new body was “entirely different”, as you claim?

You don’t have to answer. I am just making a point of what holding the Bible as the “authority” does for somebody.

I do have a Biblical answer for you as to why the tomb was empty. The Bible teaches that all physical things will be done away with. "disposed of like an old garment" "Burnt up with a roar" His body was the first physical thing that was disposed of in this way. The Bible use a word which means to exchange, like money, or clothing. That word is used for our new bodies

 

[docphin5]

I do have a Biblical answer for you as to why the tomb was empty. The Bible teaches that all physical things will be done away with. "disposed of like an old garment" "Burnt up with a roar" His body was the first physical thing that was disposed of in this way. The Bible use a word which means to exchange, like money, or clothing. That word is used for our new bodies

Now you are winging it. You cherry picked a verse applicable to the entire material world being “made new” at the consummation of this age and used it as a solution why, in your opinion, the old body of Jesus could not be found. And you call your ability to innovate from the Bible as needed, —your “authority”. Good luck with that. You might have a career as a car salesman though.

 

[Alexander the adequate]

Now you are winging it. You cherry picked a verse applicable to the entire material world being “made new” at the consummation of this age and used it as a solution why, in your opinion, the old body of Jesus could not be found. And you call your ability to innovate from the Bible as needed, —your “authority”. Good luck with that. You might have a career as a car salesman though.

Cherry pick? Would you like to try to prove that assertion? It would be a valiant effort on your part, as in my experience with debaters, "cherry picking" means to most people "I don't like the truth you pull from that verse." But please demonstrate that what I did does not fit together. That Jesus being the first born from the dead, (The first to resurrecT) did not have the old body disposed of in the same way that all of our bodies will be disposed of.
I am interested to see what scripture and logic you can bring to bear on this.
Thanks