what was the historic Christian life like,?

[Some One]

By that I mean, during the "Dark" Ages until the Renaissance, between the early church before it became a state religion and the Reformation. What was the historic Christian life like? Specifically, what was their walk and faith like? I don't mean that of monks and priests, but of the common folk who were largely illiterate, had little education, and largely based their faith and beliefs according to what they were told by their priests.

The common and poor were rarely written about, but do we have manuscripts discussing people's daily faith? What do they say?

I ask because the Reformation touts how it not only reformed the faith, but also put the word in people's hands. They could read it for themselves.

We are told scripturally and by pastors that god wants to have a relationship with us.

I read somewhere recently that many early/medieval Christians would pray by saying Psalms. The rosary was invented in the 13th century.

Prayer is part of how we're supposed to have a relationship with god.

So, for ~1200 years did most common Christians have a relationship with god based on an understanding of what modern Christians believe a relationship with god must look like? Could it be said that they had a real relationship with god? If not, were they Christians?

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Why not read Augustine, Origen and some of the Christian "fathers" and find out for yourself? My guess is like post 1200 AD believers, they prayed and read the Bible a lot. And hunted and fished and farmed and were wheelwrights and blacksmiths and carpenters and such just like non-believers.

 

[Some One]

Why not read Augustine, Origen and some of the Christian "fathers" and find out for yourself? My guess is like post 1200 AD believers, they prayed and read the Bible a lot. And hunted and fished and farmed and were wheelwrights and blacksmiths and carpenters and such just like non-believers.

I can just imagine a Visigoth peasant reading the Bible...

 

[stiggy wiggy]

I can just imagine a Visigoth peasant reading the Bible...

That's OK. I can't imagine you doing that either.

 

[Some One]

Many early first generation Christians during the dark ages between ~400 - 800 or so were so because they'd been forced to convert, either due to being conquered or because their chief or king decided to accept Christianity as their new religion. Were these peasants real Christians that had a relationship with god?

 

[Some One]

That's OK. I can't imagine you doing that either.

? For my part, I will not make any assumptions or imaginings of you, what you would or wouldn't do.

But, thanks for sharing. ?

 

[The Pixie]

That's OK. I can't imagine you doing that either.

Some One's comment was based on very low levels of literacy at the time, and the Bible only being available in Greek and Latin.

Your comment, on the other hand seems to be based on wanting to be a jerk.

I wonder who comes across as looking better? The Christian or the ex-Christian?

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Your comment, on the other hand seems to be based on wanting to be a jerk.

WRONG! I don't want to be a jerk. But I am one.

I wonder who comes across as looking better?

To whom? You? Who cares? Looks? Are we involved in a glamour contest?

 

[Some One]

WRONG! I don't want to be a jerk. But I am one.

?

I don't want to be a jerk either, but when I have been, or perceived myself to have been, I always castigate myself and typically seek forgiveness from the person I've spoken harshly to. I've done this as a Christian and still as a non-Christian. Being a jerk gets me no where and is a reflection on myself.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

?

I don't want to be a jerk either, but when I have been, or perceived myself to have been, I always castigate myself and typically seek forgiveness from the person I've spoken harshly to.

How about the Person you've spoken harshly ABOUT? Oh yeah, you don't NEED to ask His forgiveness, You've "deconverted." You can curse Him all you want.

 

[Whatsisface]

WRONG! I don't want to be a jerk. But I am one.

Do you think being a jerk gets you or anyone you speak to closer to the truth?

 

[Some One]

How about the Person you've spoken harshly ABOUT? Oh yeah, you don't NEED to ask His forgiveness, You've "deconverted." You can curse Him all you want.

Why would I ask forgiveness to something I do not believe is real as a current being? I've not cursed anyone. I am still not a fan of cursing - though perhaps you mean defamation. And, questioning the Bible and what it says about Jesus is being harsh?

Spending the last week or so on here has been almost like an episode of the Twilight Zone. A bit surreal.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Do you think being a jerk gets you or anyone you speak to closer to the truth?

Interesting question. It reminds me of two seemingly contradictory biblical Proverbs, back to back (Proverbs 26: 4 and 5). I think I'll make a new OP about it when I find the time today.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

Why would I ask forgiveness to something I do not believe is real as a current being? I've not cursed anyone. I am still not a fan of cursing - though perhaps you mean defamation. And, questioning the Bible and what it says about Jesus is being harsh?

When you defame Someone that others worship and adore, your "But, but that doesn't count since I don't believe he exists" excuse doesn't water down the indirect defamation of those who do believe.

 

[Some One]

When you defame Someone that others worship and adore, your "But, but that doesn't count since I don't believe he exists" excuse doesn't water down the indirect defamation of those who do believe.

In that case this forum shouldn't exist because it's propagating the defamation of quite a few other religions and they're adherents. If questioning and doubting any religion, belief, texts is defamation, then so is polemics.

This is actually a charge many Muslims make against Christians who debate and argue against Islam and the Quran. The Christian is supposedly inciting then to religious hatred and blaspheming Allah and defaming Muhammad. That was quite an experience the first time I witnessed it first hand at Hyde Park, listening to Jay Smith.

 

[Torin]

@Some One

I don't think you'll get many impartial answers to your question on an open internet forum dedicated to emotionally charged adversarial debate.

I don't trust contemporary scholarship on this kind of issue. A World Lit Only By Fire, which was based on early 20th century work, paints a really nasty picture of day to day Medieval life.

 

[Furion]

By that I mean, during the "Dark" Ages until the Renaissance, between the early church before it became a state religion and the Reformation. What was the historic Christian life like? Specifically, what was their walk and faith like? I don't mean that of monks and priests, but of the common folk who were largely illiterate, had little education, and largely based their faith and beliefs according to what they were told by their priests.

The common and poor were rarely written about, but do we have manuscripts discussing people's daily faith? What do they say?

I ask because the Reformation touts how it not only reformed the faith, but also put the word in people's hands. They could read it for themselves.

We are told scripturally and by pastors that god wants to have a relationship with us.

I read somewhere recently that many early/medieval Christians would pray by saying Psalms. The rosary was invented in the 13th century.

Prayer is part of how we're supposed to have a relationship with god.

So, for ~1200 years did most common Christians have a relationship with god based on an understanding of what modern Christians believe a relationship with god must look like? Could it be said that they had a real relationship with god? If not, were they Christians?

Sure, it can be said they were christian, why not. So I guess your OP is answered.

Last I checked Christ specifically stated He knows who are His. It wasn't He knows who are christians.

Do you know who are His? Plenty of atheists here seem to know who are not His anyway, or so they claim.

I mean if you want to make the case that modern "Christianity" wouldn't consider these poor peasants of the dark ages as christian, go ahead and make your case, who cares.

If you was to claim they weren't christians at all, then make that case.

Either way your argument will be an appeal to ignorance.

I think it's better you just come at it and hit it head on with the point you are trying to prove.

 

[Furion]

In that case this forum shouldn't exist because it's propagating the defamation of quite a few other religions and they're adherents.

In here it is the forum rules, just sayin.

 

[Some One]

@Some One

I don't think you'll get many impartial answers to your question on an open internet forum dedicated to emotionally charged adversarial debate.

I don't trust contemporary scholarship on this kind of issue. A World Lit Only By Fire, which was based on early 20th century work, paints a really nasty picture of day to day Medieval life.

Life was harsh. Overall I agree about the lack of impartiality here.

My questions in this vein obviously are leading to the posit that many 'Christians' in history, especially the early church, for a variety of reasons heavily affected by time and culture, would likely not be considered real Christians according to today's metrics of orthodoxy and what a real relationship/faith walk with god is supposed to entail.

 

[Furion]

My questions in this vein obviously are leading to the posit that many 'Christians' in history, especially the early church, for a variety of reasons heavily affected by time and culture, would likely not be considered real Christians according to today's metrics of orthodoxy and what a real relationship/faith walk with god is supposed to entail.

Will you post any evidence of this opinion?