Oh what rubbish, no surprise at all.
How is this defensible?
- Thread starter 4Him
- Start date
It is a shame that the RCC is devoid of believing scientists, philosophers, academics and need to turn to those who believe that God does not exist. Might as well just follow Nietzsche. No surprise. But the evidence is in their posts and their lack of understanding of scripture. Such a shame. No wonder I did not find Jesus in the RCC,
Stella1000
Well-known member
How can the Church possibly speak fully and authoritatively on moral issues without a full understanding of them? Just for example the immorality of IVF or environmental sins?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
So what you are arguing is that "the Church" has much to learn from men before "it" knows what to do.
Stella1000
Well-known member
Exactly. The Church doesn't know everything about everything.
Well they must fully understand the moral issues concerning raping of nuns, the sexual abuse of children and the consequences of children outside of marriage by now. Maybe they should have had a conference on those sins before they ignored them for decades.
The first IVF in this country was an RC woman who was in the same year as me. Your institution might make statements but if they allow sin to flourish in one area, then why would anyone care what they say on other issues. Actions speak they cannot speak on morals, if they ignore their own moral behaviour.
Jesus had a word for pharisees and your leaders are the modern pharisees.
1) Oh, the irony of this!
2) We are seeing the results of the concept of papal infallibility.
3) More evidence that the RCC is becoming the Church of the World.
--Rich
A new day
Super Member
When it comes to morality, we seek what God says about moral and spiritual issues. And we do this by looking to see what HE has said in Scripture. HE is the one who set the bar and boundaries where moral issues are concerned.
Stella1000
Well-known member
So what does He say about IVF in Scripture?
A new day
Super Member
There is a lot of hypocrisy in your Question, and loaded with mockery. Certainly appears by the words posted by Carm posting rc's that they delight in mocking Scripture. And it shows they have no love for God when they do it. Nope, their real love is elsewhere. If you truly knew God and loved Him, you would not be replying to me in the way you did.
Rc's run to everyone and everything else for spiritual guidance including atheists who don't believe in the existence of God. rc's make excuses for every inconsistency of their institution or why God should look the other way and accept their mariolatry and saint worship, etc.... and all the while pretend that they are doing all this for God.
How could you possibly believe what He says about worldly issues when you don't believe what Scripture says about the gospel message and all other spiritual and moral issues that Scripture is crystal clear on.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
It is not acceptable in any way. I find this decidedly nauseating. As neaseating as Biden saying "No, he [Pope Francis] said I am a good Catholic and should keep receiving communion." On this point you win. I concede.Pope Francis has defended the appointment of an atheist supporter of abortion to the Pontifical Academy for Life.
Pope Francis defends appointment of pro-abortion woman to Pontifical Academy for Life - Catholic Herald
Pope Francis has defended the appointment of an atheist supporter of abortion to the Pontifical Academy for Life. During an in-flight press conference on the return to Rome from Bahrain, the Holy Father said Prof Mariana Mazzucato would bring “a little more humanity” to the workings of an...catholicherald.co.uk
There are enough atheist and secularist voices in the world attempting to silence the voice of God. What we need are people who believe God's Truth and want to share it, as well as defend it from the likes of Mariana. I am starting to wonder if Pope Francis even believes the Catholic Faith.
Pope Francis from day one has been an absolute disaster for the Church. He is about the worst pope I have known in modern history.
Wow, finally something we agree on. Thank you for being honest about this issue.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Stella,
Sometimes I think it is okay to say to concede the point to Protestants. In this case, I feel that there is no defense for what Pope Francis has done.
There are enough liberal, secular, atheistic voices in the world--and they have the ear of a lot of rich, powerful people, as well as the media. Given the shape of the Catholic Church today where even bishops and priests do not believe and preach the Catholic Faith, do you really think we need to give people like that a voice in a powerful Vatican post?
What the Church needs, what Pope Francis needs is to start speaking up for God's Truth. What we need in these powerful Vatican posts-are people willing to preach and defend Catholicism.
Sorry Stella, but I am with 4-Him on this one. Pope Francis utterly disgusts me. We might as well have Joe Biden for our pope.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
4-Him, I might be Catholic--but right is right, and wrong is wrong.
You are right to be disgusted by this.
Thanks….and you are right to be disgusted by this.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Can you give us some idea of how catholics 'take it to the church' in this instance?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
In theory, the same way Paul did.
Paul rebuked Peter when Peter's behavior with the Gentiles was hypocritical. Catholics can be critical of the pope--and many have been critical of Pope Francis. Some bishops have been vocal also.
How else do we "take it to the Church?" Ultimately if controversies are bad enough and begin to affect the unity of the Church, then a Church council is called to deal with it. Pope Francis's papacy while disastrous has not yet reached the level where a council would be necessary. We will see what happens.
Nondenom40
Well-known member
Whose gonna get in the popes face and rebuke him? Paul and Peter were apostles and Paul called like he saw it. Also i don't see anywhere in Matt 18 where 'taking it to the church' meant call a council. In reality there is no effective way to hold the pope accountable to the faith he allegedly is to protect.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Well, I would-----but:
1) I do not live in Rome, nowhere even near Rome, and
2) The pope is surrounded by Swiss Guard--the Vatican equivalent of the secret service. Thus, there is no way I would be able to get close enough to him to rebuke him, and
3) I am not important enough for the pope to have an audience with, or care what I think even if I could get close enough to rebuke him. If I even could get close enough to rebuke him, he would probably just see me as a crazy person.
Yes, Paul did--and Paul was right to do so,
Yes--this is a weakness. There is no mechanism of accountability for the pope. The pope has no direct boss, save God. The pope is a monarch. I think, however, if the pope lost the confidence of the majority of Catholics--and the majority of Catholics and bishops no longer recognized his authority, he would still be the valid pope--but only technically so. When your office and authority are no longer recognized, it becomes hard to maintain leadership. In such a case, I think a pope would have no choice but to resign.
The bishops are in a far better position to be able to rebuke the pope than I am. However, only a few brave bishops have dared to be critical of him.