It is the RCC that is in disunity. Just look at its inhouse fighting, and the posts here the disunity is nearly palatable, it is so strong.
Works plus faith
- Thread starter balshan
- Start date
JoeT
Well-known member
Please define "work". Is a "work" to participate in communion? Is it a "work" to "believe"? Is it a "work" to feed the hungry? Is it a "work" to cloth the naked? Is it a "work" to give alms? Please be specific?
JoeT
Oh don't you know, we have been waiting for RCs to define what they mean by works. But we know that RCs keep demanding that non RCs be perfect/holy and yet do not make that same demands of their own institution. I cannot be specific as no RC has ever been specific. But note that those works do not save a person or make a person holy. In the case of your institution you all seem to think sexually immorality is fine, as RCs just ignore their institutions bad fruit.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Well I must say--I think this is about as close to an "You got me, I don't know" that we will ever see out of you.
You know what really gave it away though? The "Look over here at the sex abuse scandal!" When you bring that up----it is like a sign that says "I have no intelligent reply so--sex abuse, sex abuse, sex abuse, I win!"
No it is RCs who have no intelligent reply. Still waiting for RCs to tell us what they mean by work? RCs talk a lot of salad but never clarify what they really mean.
RCs brag about their works, yet they don't know what they are. They condemn non RCs for claiming to be holy/perfect, yet they do not condemnd their institution for not being perfect. Jesus has talked about those who expect something from others and not themselves...
[[
have you never read
Paul says that which was ""WRITTEN"" is / are examples so we might know
----------------Posters-----------------
there is a hugh amount of info in 1st and 2nd Samuel
an entire linage totally cast out never to have any
serve in the Temple again
and the lesson taught goes completely over their heads
and
Becasue office in the Church does not depend on the moral worthiness of the one who holds the office.
==========================================
Tell that to Levi
I want to be the mouse in the corner at judgement
when you try to tell God that
amazing the excuses those that defend the RCC
can come up with
an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit
for out of the Mouth, the heart speaketh
'''
Oh really; are you foo shoe about that
have you never read
Paul says that which was ""WRITTEN"" is / are examples so we might know
----------------Posters-----------------
there is a hugh amount of info in 1st and 2nd Samuel
1Sam.2:12
Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial;
they knew not the Lord.
......
27 And there came a man of God unto Eli,
and said unto him,
Thus saith the Lord,
Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father,
when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
28 And did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest,
to offer upon mine altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me?
and did I give unto the house of thy father
all the offerings made by fire of the children of Israel?
30 Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith,
I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father,
should walk before me for ever:
but now the Lord saith,
..........
Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial;
they knew not the Lord.
......
27 And there came a man of God unto Eli,
and said unto him,
Thus saith the Lord,
Did I plainly appear unto the house of thy father,
when they were in Egypt in Pharaoh's house?
28 And did I choose him out of all the tribes of Israel to be my priest,
to offer upon mine altar, to burn incense, to wear an ephod before me?
and did I give unto the house of thy father
all the offerings made by fire of the children of Israel?
30 Wherefore the Lord God of Israel saith,
I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father,
should walk before me for ever:
but now the Lord saith,
..........
an entire linage totally cast out never to have any
serve in the Temple again
and the lesson taught goes completely over their heads
and
romishpopishorganist
saysBecasue office in the Church does not depend on the moral worthiness of the one who holds the office.
==========================================
Tell that to Levi
I want to be the mouse in the corner at judgement
when you try to tell God that
amazing the excuses those that defend the RCC
can come up with
an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit
for out of the Mouth, the heart speaketh
'''
JoeT
Well-known member
We don't know love of neighbor and love enemies, how so?
"False biographies"? What people? You're not making sense? Whose neighbor and whose enemies did we falsify?
Not exactly. If I do something willfully then merit or culpability is mine. If God or anyone else forces me to do something then to the degree of cooperation given merit or culpability is mine. That's the way free will works.
With regard to "pillar and foundation of truth and morals" and the dependency on works you asked for an explanation of the Church "that makes the bold claims list above needs to show the same", I asked the simple question what "works" you claim there is a dependency on "works." Just how do you define works? What is a "good work" and "what is a bad work" - assuming you classify them in this way.
Your OP essentially says there is no "works" and that Catholics are hypocrites. You claim that God makes us good. The flip side of that is by not making us do good "works" He leaves us in a "bad" state. Is your god condemning you for His works? If I do something then shouldn't I receive the merit or culpability? If we are to discuss your claims shouldn't we need specific "works" in order to respond?
At times "works" are difficult, exhaustive and sometimes expensive, I'd like to know where I can save my energies.
JoeT
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Reading the whole chapter is quite informative.
1Sa 2:17 ISV By doing this [not doing what YHWH said to], the sin of the young men [Eli's sons] was very serious in the LORD’s sight because the men despised the LORD’s offering.
How did they show that they despised it? By their actions. Their fruit.
Furthermore,
1Sa 2:22-25 ISV Now Eli was very old, and he had heard everything that his sons were doing to the Israelis, and how they lay with the women who were serving regularly at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. “Why are you doing these things that I’m hearing about?” he asked his sons, “These reports about your evil deeds are coming from all these people! No, my sons, I’m not hearing good news being circulated by the LORD’s people. If a person sins against another, God will mediate for him, but if a person sins against the LORD, who can intercede for him?” But they would not follow the advice of their father; for the LORD wanted to put them to death.
But Hophni and Phineas, Eli's sons, did not die for some time. They were allowed by God to continue their wicked ways; they were given time to repent, but they did not. The result? The Ark of the Covenant – the indication of God's presence with His people – was captured by pagans, and Eli's sons were killed. They reaped what they had sown. Their immoral way of life – their fruit – was judged by God. They thought they were OK with God, doing the rites and rituals demanded of them (well, adapted a little for their convenience), but they were far from it. They could not (or would not) see their immoral lifestyle did not please God.
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Your post which said I belonged to a coven is an example of not loving your neighbours. Rcs in their posts calling people heretics and full of hate are other examples. Bearing false witness is just another example. Your totally misrepresenting my op is just another example of not knowing how to love your nighbours.
You don't know about the false biographies of the saints, you know the ones that have them as perfect human beings without flaws, the ones we were given to read at school.
You obviously do not understand my op. I never said there are no works. I have said that RCs should not demand of others what they do not demand of their institution which is full of bad fruit. If others need to be perfect, then your institution needs to be perfect and it is far from perfect.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
A Protestant poster says you are not making sense?
Catholicism even when it makes sense to them--can't make sense. If it did, they might have to rethink all the lies they have bought.
And that is an example of bearing false witness.
Blessings8
Well-known member
God is the cause of our salvation. The elect WILL be saved. BUT we do not know who the elect will be. As ST. Paul says, work your salvation in fear and trembling. But it is not as Calvinists believe that one can sin mortally and STILL be saved. But the works that do show one is saved ARE the works of God. But God does not force us, we still have free will.
JoeT
Well-known member
Loving your neighbor is willing the good of the other for its own sake. I will you good in truth.
JoeT
Oh what a watered down version of what it really is, and it is such a cover up for harming your neighbours in thought, word and deed.
Blessings8
Well-known member
Love IS wanting the best of another. That best is heaven. When you love another for his/her own sake, you are loving them as God loves them. It is not about YOU. It is about doing Gods Will.
I never said it was about you. That is the problem with RCs they twist the posts of others and make out they are better than others. I was giving examples of what RCs do that isn't loving your neighbours. Well done.
You cannot love others as you are meant to when you are not saved, without Jesus it is impossible.
Blessings8
Well-known member
I just said what love IS.
Oh the second last sentence you said a lot more than that.
All sin in mortal sin, so yea, we all still sin and we are still saved. Jesus paid for them all.
Blessings8
Well-known member
You can't kill someone, die unrepentant, and still be saved.