Jesus' pre-existence before he was born as a human

Nathan P said:
You want to ignore who the subject is there.
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Certainly! Let’s explore the meaning of the phrase “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” This statement comes from the New Testament, specifically the book of Colossians. Here’s a breakdown:

  1. Context:
    • The verse you’re referring to is found in Colossians 1:15-20.
    • The apostle Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church to address various theological issues and encourage believers in their faith.
  2. The Phrase:
    • “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15, NIV).
  3. Interpretation:
    • Let’s break down the key components:
      • “He is the image of the invisible God”:
        • This phrase refers to Jesus Christ.
        • Jesus is described as the “image” of God. The Greek word used here is “eikōn,” which means an exact representation or likeness.
        • Just as an image reflects the original, Jesus reflects the nature, character, and essence of God.
        • The term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
      • “The firstborn over all creation”:
        • This phrase has caused some debate and misunderstanding.
        • It does not mean that Jesus was created or born before creation.
        • Instead, it points to Jesus’ preeminence and supremacy.
        • In Jewish culture, the firstborn held a special status, representing authority, inheritance, and prominence.
        • Jesus, as the eternal Son of God, existed before all creation and holds a unique position as the one through whom all things were created (Colossians 1:16).
  4. Further Explanation:
    • Paul continues in the same passage to emphasize Jesus’ role in creation:
      • “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NIV).
    • Jesus is not merely a created being; he is the Creator.
    • His preeminence extends beyond creation to redemption, as he reconciles humanity to God through his sacrificial death and resurrection (Colossians 1:20).
  5. Summary:
    • In summary, Colossians 1:15-20 exalts Jesus Christ as the visible representation of the invisible God, the supreme ruler over all creation, and the one through whom everything exists.
    • It underscores Jesus’ deity, authority, and redemptive work.
Remember that biblical passages can be rich and multifaceted, and different theologians may offer nuanced interpretations. However, the central message remains: Jesus is the revelation of God to humanity, and his significance transcends time and creation .
 
Tanachreader said:
Certainly! Let’s explore the meaning of the phrase “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” This statement comes from the New Testament, specifically the book of Colossians. Here’s a breakdown:

  1. Context:
    • The verse you’re referring to is found in Colossians 1:15-20.
    • The apostle Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church to address various theological issues and encourage believers in their faith.
  2. The Phrase:
    • “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15, NIV).
  3. Interpretation:
    • Let’s break down the key components:
      • “He is the image of the invisible God”:
        • This phrase refers to Jesus Christ.
        • Jesus is described as the “image” of God. The Greek word used here is “eikōn,” which means an exact representation or likeness.
        • Just as an image reflects the original, Jesus reflects the nature, character, and essence of God.
        • The term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
      • “The firstborn over all creation”:
        • This phrase has caused some debate and misunderstanding.
        • It does not mean that Jesus was created or born before creation.
        • Instead, it points to Jesus’ preeminence and supremacy.
        • In Jewish culture, the firstborn held a special status, representing authority, inheritance, and prominence.
        • Jesus, as the eternal Son of God, existed before all creation and holds a unique position as the one through whom all things were created (Colossians 1:16).
  4. Further Explanation:
    • Paul continues in the same passage to emphasize Jesus’ role in creation:
      • “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NIV).
    • Jesus is not merely a created being; he is the Creator.
    • His preeminence extends beyond creation to redemption, as he reconciles humanity to God through his sacrificial death and resurrection (Colossians 1:20).
  5. Summary:
    • In summary, Colossians 1:15-20 exalts Jesus Christ as the visible representation of the invisible God, the supreme ruler over all creation, and the one through whom everything exists.
    • It underscores Jesus’ deity, authority, and redemptive work.
Remember that biblical passages can be rich and multifaceted, and different theologians may offer nuanced interpretations. However, the central message remains: Jesus is the revelation of God to humanity, and his significance transcends time and creation .
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Your continued use of these "explorations," "breakdowns," and "delvings" without giving the source is plagiarism. Not very Christ-like.
 
Tanachreader said:
Certainly! Let’s explore the meaning of the phrase “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” This statement comes from the New Testament, specifically the book of Colossians. Here’s a breakdown:

  1. Context:
    • The verse you’re referring to is found in Colossians 1:15-20.
    • The apostle Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church to address various theological issues and encourage believers in their faith.
  2. The Phrase:
    • “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15, NIV).
  3. Interpretation:
    • Let’s break down the key components:
      • “He is the image of the invisible God”:
        • This phrase refers to Jesus Christ.
        • Jesus is described as the “image” of God. The Greek word used here is “eikōn,” which means an exact representation or likeness.
        • Just as an image reflects the original, Jesus reflects the nature, character, and essence of God.
        • The term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
      • “The firstborn over all creation”:
        • This phrase has caused some debate and misunderstanding.
        • It does not mean that Jesus was created or born before creation.
        • Instead, it points to Jesus’ preeminence and supremacy.
        • In Jewish culture, the firstborn held a special status, representing authority, inheritance, and prominence.
        • Jesus, as the eternal Son of God, existed before all creation and holds a unique position as the one through whom all things were created (Colossians 1:16).
  4. Further Explanation:
    • Paul continues in the same passage to emphasize Jesus’ role in creation:
      • “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NIV).
    • Jesus is not merely a created being; he is the Creator.
    • His preeminence extends beyond creation to redemption, as he reconciles humanity to God through his sacrificial death and resurrection (Colossians 1:20).
  5. Summary:
    • In summary, Colossians 1:15-20 exalts Jesus Christ as the visible representation of the invisible God, the supreme ruler over all creation, and the one through whom everything exists.
    • It underscores Jesus’ deity, authority, and redemptive work.
Remember that biblical passages can be rich and multifaceted, and different theologians may offer nuanced interpretations. However, the central message remains: Jesus is the revelation of God to humanity, and his significance transcends time and creation .
Click to expand...
His 'Firstborn' status is of the New Creation. In the OT, The Firstborn has the birthright (Esau disposed his birthright and hence Jacob inherited) by the virtue of which he inherits father's inheritance. It's also a Priestly blessing where Kevites were counted for each firstborn of Israel.

In Yahusha's case, He inherits all spiritual blessings on behalf of His elect - who are transformed into Him
 
It is talking about who he was an image of.
Anthony said:
His 'Firstborn' status is of the New Creation. In the OT, The Firstborn has the birthright (Esau disposed his birthright and hence Jacob inherited) by the virtue of which he inherits father's inheritance. It's also a Priestly blessing where Kevites were counted for each firstborn of Israel.

In Yahusha's case, He inherits all spiritual blessings on behalf of His elect - who are transfor
Click to expand...
 
Tanachreader said:
Certainly! Let’s explore the meaning of the phrase “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” This statement comes from the New Testament, specifically the book of Colossians. Here’s a breakdown:

  1. Context:
    • The verse you’re referring to is found in Colossians 1:15-20.
    • The apostle Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church to address various theological issues and encourage believers in their faith.
  2. The Phrase:
    • “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15, NIV).
  3. Interpretation:
    • Let’s break down the key components:
      • “He is the image of the invisible God”:
        • This phrase refers to Jesus Christ.
        • Jesus is described as the “image” of God. The Greek word used here is “eikōn,” which means an exact representation or likeness.
        • Just as an image reflects the original, Jesus reflects the nature, character, and essence of God.
        • The term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
      • “The firstborn over all creation”:
        • This phrase has caused some debate and misunderstanding.
        • It does not mean that Jesus was created or born before creation.
        • Instead, it points to Jesus’ preeminence and supremacy.
        • In Jewish culture, the firstborn held a special status, representing authority, inheritance, and prominence.
        • Jesus, as the eternal Son of God, existed before all creation and holds a unique position as the one through whom all things were created (Colossians 1:16).
  4. Further Explanation:
    • Paul continues in the same passage to emphasize Jesus’ role in creation:
      • “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NIV).
    • Jesus is not merely a created being; he is the Creator.
    • His preeminence extends beyond creation to redemption, as he reconciles humanity to God through his sacrificial death and resurrection (Colossians 1:20).
  5. Summary:
    • In summary, Colossians 1:15-20 exalts Jesus Christ as the visible representation of the invisible God, the supreme ruler over all creation, and the one through whom everything exists.
    • It underscores Jesus’ deity, authority, and redemptive work.
Remember that biblical passages can be rich and multifaceted, and different theologians may offer nuanced interpretations. However, the central message remains: Jesus is the revelation of God to humanity, and his significance transcends time and creation .
Click to expand...
The subject from vss 12-14 are the Father and all vs 15 does is say who he was an image of correct?
 
johnny guitar said:
The passage Col. 1:14-17 concerns Jesus Christ The RULER, HEAD of all creation. You do not want to admit it is talking about who he was an image of and who he was an image of there would be the subject because the Father was the subject from vss 12-14 and all vs 15 does is say he was an image of the subject.
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Nathan P said:
The subject from vss 12-14 are the Father and all vs 15 does is say who he was an image of correct?
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V12 starts with Father, He sent His Son to redeem us. Jesus the visible God, the Word made flesh.
The Father and Son are God. John 1:1-18
Again the term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
 
Tanachreader said:
V12 starts with Father, He sent His Son to redeem us. Jesus the visible God, the Word made flesh.
The Father and Son are God. John 1:1-18
Again the term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
Click to expand...
If someone says he is the owner of the car it is talking about the car and he is the owner of it correct?
 
johnny guitar said:
The passage Col. 1:14-17 concerns Jesus Christ The RULER, HEAD of all creation.
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So when it says he is the owner of the carit is talking about the car and he is the owner of the car correct?
Tanachreader said:
It is about Jesus. Mankind has seen Him.
Click to expand...
johnny guitar said:
We are concerned with 1:14-19. wherein Jesus Christ fills the scene.
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Tanachreader said:
It is about Jesus. Mankind has seen Him.
Click to expand...
st a
Tanachreader said:
It is about Jesus. Mankind has seen Him.
Click to expand...
Just answer the question so the point can be proven.
 
We know he (the Word at the t
Tanachreader said:
Certainly! Let’s explore the meaning of the phrase “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.” This statement comes from the New Testament, specifically the book of Colossians. Here’s a breakdown:

  1. Context:
    • The verse you’re referring to is found in Colossians 1:15-20.
    • The apostle Paul wrote this letter to the Colossian church to address various theological issues and encourage believers in their faith.
  2. The Phrase:
    • “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation” (Colossians 1:15, NIV).
  3. Interpretation:
    • Let’s break down the key components:
      • “He is the image of the invisible God”:
        • This phrase refers to Jesus Christ.
        • Jesus is described as the “image” of God. The Greek word used here is “eikōn,” which means an exact representation or likeness.
        • Just as an image reflects the original, Jesus reflects the nature, character, and essence of God.
        • The term “invisible God” emphasizes that God, being spirit, is not physically visible to human eyes. However, Jesus, as God incarnate, makes the invisible God known to us.
      • “The firstborn over all creation”:
        • This phrase has caused some debate and misunderstanding.
        • It does not mean that Jesus was created or born before creation.
        • Instead, it points to Jesus’ preeminence and supremacy.
        • In Jewish culture, the firstborn held a special status, representing authority, inheritance, and prominence.
        • Jesus, as the eternal Son of God, existed before all creation and holds a unique position as the one through whom all things were created (Colossians 1:16).
  4. Further Explanation:
    • Paul continues in the same passage to emphasize Jesus’ role in creation:
      • “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NIV).
    • Jesus is not merely a created being; he is the Creator.
    • His preeminence extends beyond creation to redemption, as he reconciles humanity to God through his sacrificial death and resurrection (Colossians 1:20).
  5. Summary:
    • In summary, Colossians 1:15-20 exalts Jesus Christ as the visible representation of the invisible God, the supreme ruler over all creation, and the one through whom everything exists.
    • It underscores Jesus’ deity, authority, and redemptive work.
Remember that biblical passages can be rich and multifaceted, and different theologians may offer nuanced interpretations. However, the central message remains: Jesus is the revelation of God to humanity, and his significance transcends time and creation .
Click to expand...
We know he (the Word at the time) was before creation but not before the beginning because creation happened in the beginning.
 
Nathan P said:
It is talking about who he was an image of.
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Just not the image but Express Image of Transcendent God (beyond space, matter and time).

Adam was just the physical image of The One to come as The Son of God. Adam was of old creation. He needs to be conformed to the image of The Son in new creation - Rom 8:29.
 
Nathan P said:
The subject from vss 12-14 are the Father and all vs 15 does is say who he was an image of correct?
Click to expand...
Who is The Father? Is His Fatherhood apart from Sonship of Yahusha Messiah? Of course not!

God as The Father is beyond space, matter and time with no one to reach Him except The One Who proceeded forth from His own Being and became part of His own creation.

When people ask Yahusha Messiah to show them The Father, He will still rebuke them by quoting John 14:9

9 יהושע said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father, and how do you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
 
Lilel01 said:
Do we find anything in the Scriptures about the prehuman Jesus?
What did Jesus teach about himself before he was human?
What other reasoning based on the Scriptures can we make to know the reality about Jesus before he was born on earth?
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Obviously, John 1:1, 18; 8:58; 17:5, all teach Jesus existed prior to his birth, but one that many people miss is all the times Jesus says he is from above implying that he did not start to exist in Mary: "Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?" John 6:62.

What did Jesus do before he was born incarnate?

He was "in form God" Phil 2:6-7.
He was with the Father—"The Word was with God" John 1:1b.
He was saving a people out of Egypt. "Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe." Jude 5. Some manuscripts say Lord, but Jesus is the Lord, and the oldest and best position is that it says Jesus.
He was making the Father known. This one needs some extra work: John 1:18 says "No one has ever seen God; the only God/Son, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known." The problem arises when one sees in Genesis 18:1 "And Yahweh appeared to him (Abram) by the oaks of Mamre, as he sat at the door of his tent in the heat of the day.", Jacob say "I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered." Genesis 32:30, and Isaiah say "my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of hosts!" Abraham, Jacob and Isaiah all saw God, but John says "No one has ever seen God." So, what's the answer to this conundrum? John answers his own contradiction: "the only God/Son, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known." Aka, whenever someone saw God in the OT, they weren't seeing the Father, they were seeing the preincarnate Son.

I could go on, but hopefully this answers your questions.

God Bless
 
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