Jesus' pre-existence before he was born as a human

Anthony said:
Col 1: 19 Because in Him all the completeness was well pleased to dwell,

There is no Father in the above verse because its in His Sonship the Fatherhood of God is revealed.
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Please use your head man.

Anthony said:
Col 1:15 who is the likeness of the invisible Elohim, the first-born of all creation.

The invisible Elohim refers to the transcendent Elohim (beyond space, matter and time) Whom no one has seen or can see.

I don't see how creatures can have ever access to Him except through Yahusha Messiah, The Son of Elohim because He proceeded forth from transcendent Elohim's own Being. Downplaying the One Who arrived in creation doesn't hold water. We need Yahusha Messiah to be connected to Elohim in Himself.

The Father and The Son are not Names nor distinct Persons. It's by surface reading of scriptures one arrives at that foundational error in both Trinitarianism and Unitarianism.

Heb 1:3 He is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification for sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

He is not the very image of the Person of God but rather His substance which otherwise would have been unknown.

Transcendent Elohim is not a Person by any standard. The error in both Trinitarianism and Unitarianism is that they consider Transcendent Elohim (Father) is a Person. The substance is Spirit and Yahusha Messiah is the Bodily form of the substance of Elohim.

1John 5:
7 Because there are three who bear witness: note

8 the Spirit, and the water, and the blood. And the three are in agreement.

He is the Spirit transcripted form of God in creation by being part of it and through His resurrection He is The Firstborn over all in New Creation.

Once His Sonship is subjected to The Father at the end of this age, He shall be The Everlasting Father as He will be face to face with His glorified saints.

The unregenerate are all looking for a Father outside of Yahusha but they have no place in the new creation as they are all bound with Satan within the perimeter of 1000 years to be loosed to trample the outercourt of the temple to make it a dead carcass.
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Lilel01 said:
Jesus is called in the Scriptures "the firstborn of all creation". That expression implies that Jesus is part of the creation, one who was also created.

Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation

By repeating, just before, that he is the image of God, Paul is confirming that he is referring to a son whom God gave life to... and created as a reflection of Himself.

Heb. 1:3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power. And after he had made a purification for our sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

The phrase in red there shows that the Majesty of the Universe is not Jesus, but the One next to whom he was before the rest of creation (John 17:5), and next to whom he is after having been exalted in heaven after his resurrection:

Heb. 8:1 Now this is the main point of what we are saying: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a minister of the holy place and of the true tent, which Jehovah set up, and not man.
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The flesh of Jesus was created by God in Mary’s womb, but there has never been a moment in eternity when Jesus did not exist. John 1:1 says in the beginning was the word , and the word was with God and the word was God. So do you also believe God had a beginning ? Now read John 1:14 and the word became flesh. Hello ! Jesus is God in the flesh.
 
Leatherneck0311 said:
The flesh of Jesus was created by God in Mary’s womb,
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Where did this notion come from? Your imaginations?

Leatherneck0311 said:
but there has never been a moment in eternity when Jesus did not exist. John 1:1 says in the beginning was the word , and the word was with God and the word was God.
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And John's Gospel tells us that John 1:1 is referring to the word which God gave to Jesus to proclaim during his ministry.

Leatherneck0311 said:
So do you also believe God had a beginning ? Now read John 1:14 and the word became flesh. Hello ! Jesus is God in the flesh.
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Hello, you are imagining a notion into the text which is not there. It does not say that a person became flesh. Your imaginations did that.
 
Our Lord's God said:
Where did this notion come from? Your imaginations?



And John's Gospel tells us that John 1:1 is referring to the word which God gave to Jesus to proclaim during his ministry.



Hello, you are imagining a notion into the text which is not there. It does not say that a person became flesh. Your imaginations did that.
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Only a PERSON can become a Man and that Person is identified with PERSONAL pronouns.
 
johnny guitar said:
Only a PERSON can become a Man
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Get a dictionary and use it once!

What exactly is a person before he becomes a man?!?!

Your idolatry has you constantly making these asinine statements that defy simple definitions of simple words. Pull your head outta your backside.
 
johnny guitar said:
A Person in my monotheistic mind.
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Define person.

Here, I’ll help you since you can’t be honest:

A human being. A man, woman or child.

Now apply that definition to your moronic comment—

“Only a person can become a man.”

If Jesus was a person before “becoming a man,” then he was a man all along…which doesn’t bode well for your position.
 
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Unbound68 said:
Define person.

Here, I’ll help you since you can’t be honest:

A human being. A man, woman or child.

Now apply that definition to your moronic comment—

“Only a person can become a man.”

If Jesus was a person before “becoming a man,” then he was a man all along…which doesn’t bode well for your position.
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With men A Person is as you say.
But we are speaking of God, NOT men.
 
johnny guitar said:
With men A Person is as you say.
But we are speaking of God, NOT men.
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So you’re saying God uses a completely different lexicon than the humans He created use. It’s a wonder that those to whom He spoke in the OT could understand what He meant at all.


Shame on you.
 
johnny guitar said:
God is a different being than man is.
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Don’t be stupid. God spoke to men directly and He gave His word to us. Men have understood what He said to them and they have understood the words He placed in the scriptures. They understood both based on human understanding, human lexicons and human dictionaries.

It is entirely unreasonable and impossible to suppose that God would define the very words He spoke and gave to us differently than we do.

Only those deeply entrenched in unbiblical doctrine would dare make such an argument.
 
Unbound68 said:
Don’t be stupid. God spoke to men directly and He gave His word to us. Men have understood what He said to them and they have understood the words He placed in the scriptures. They understood both based on human understanding, human lexicons and human dictionaries.

It is entirely unreasonable and impossible to suppose that God would define the very words He spoke and gave to us differently than we do.

Only those deeply entrenched in unbiblical doctrine would dare make such an argument.
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What has this to do with the fact is A BEING, unlike any man?????????
 
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