The "IT" Logos

Runningman said:
Funny thing about that is it says God spoke though the Son in these last days to create the universe, but in the past He spoke through the prophets. Does that even make sense? The universe wasn't made in the last days. There's a lot of funny things like that around those "Jesus is the creator" verses.
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Spoke IN The Son
When The Son speaks God Himself is speaking.
 
Roger Thornhill said:
And again:

Are you saying that Jesus being sent from down from and coming into the world at John 3:13,17 is Jesus being born again?
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I didn't say Jesus was "born again" but rather born the first time from above. That's the different between us and Jesus I believe, he is begotten.
 
Tanachreader said:

Related Verses​

Exodus 4:22
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the LORD, Israel is my firstborn son,

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.

Psalm 89
20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:21 With whom my hand shall be established: mine arm also shall strengthen him. 22 The enemy shall not exact upon him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.23 And I will beat down his foes before his face, and plague them that hate him. 24But my faithfulness and my mercy shall bewith him: and in my name shall his horn be exalted. 25 I will set his hand also in the sea, and his right hand in the rivers. 26 He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. 28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
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Firstborn is used to refer to someone's first child. That's what the word firstborn means. What you're desperately wishing firstborn would suddenly mean is something other than having a beginning point. The bible is pretty clear about Jesus being the firstborn of all creatures. That means he isn't God. Deal with it.
 
Roger Thornhill said:
You are doubling down on your argument from silence.

The manuscripts do document the change from YHWH to Adonai. You can't refute that.

And you have not given any reason to reject it except appealing to the same translators who render YHWH in their translations as Lord.

The name of the most important person in the universe and you endorse removing it.

Remarkable.
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I am appealing to all translators. From your silence on the matter of any translation that has YHWH in vs three, no one has translated using YHWH in the verse including the ones that must have read your resources.
Your argument is dead in the water, and you are beating a dead horse.
 
Towerwatchman said:
In a court of law, where truth is established, it is the job of the one making the accusations or assertions to provide proof for them.
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He did provide proof. Only an idiot without access to the sources specifically cited would claim otherwise.

Towerwatchman said:
Why did I ask for a snapshot?
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Because you’re too lazy to track down the sources he cited to verify his claims for yourself.

When a lawyer cites case law to establish precedent, does opposing council ask for “a snapshot” from the book? or is he or she expected to have actually done their own homework during preparation for their case?

Towerwatchman said:
Because I am hedging he doesn’t have the resources to take a snapshot, and he is parroting what he read or heard.
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And if you weren’t so lazy, you could track down the sources he cited and settle the matter without using “hedging” as a disguise for an intelligent argument.

Towerwatchman said:
Which he proved me right. There is nothing in his garage. Maybe the corvette and a box of classified documents.
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Prove any of that. Oh I forgot, you’d have to actually get off your rear end and track down his sources.

Towerwatchman said:
And here you are acting like a little weasel clueless to what’s going on.
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ROFLOL!!!

Towerwatchman said:
You must have a miserable and sad existence to consider my business interesting enough to require your attention.
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Nope, I just try to point out the pretenders when I see them.
 
shroom said:
The reason for his existence is God. God created him. In that sense Jesus Christ "came down from heaven."
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John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

This happened in a sense????

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

This happened in a sense????

John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

In a sense Jesus existed prior to the world existing.

To be honest the only thing that doesn't make "sense" is you and the way you inserted your senseless concept of Jesus not existing prior to His incarnation when the Word who was Goad...and by the way with God ....became flesh.

BTW, how did Jesus do all this creating when He had no pre-incarnate existence?
 
Towerwatchman said:
I am appealing to all translators. From your silence on the matter of any translation that has YHWH in vs three, no one has translated using YHWH in the verse including the ones that must have read your resources.
Your argument is dead in the water, and you are beating a dead horse.
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I gave you one. This one. I predict you will find a reason to discount it.

But I have refuted your claim.

The Scriptures Bible
“And said, YHWH, if now I have found favor (grace in Hebrew) in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:” (Genesis 18:3)
 
CrowCross said:
John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

This happened in a sense????
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Yes. Jesus Christ did not preexist his conception except in God's plan.

CrowCross said:
John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

This happened in a sense????
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See above.

CrowCross said:
John 17:5 And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed.

In a sense Jesus existed prior to the world existing.
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Yes, in the same way that Christ was crucified from the foundation of the world.

CrowCross said:
To be honest the only thing that doesn't make "sense" is you and the way you inserted your senseless concept of Jesus not existing prior to His incarnation when the Word who was Goad...and by the way with God ....became flesh.
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All previously discussed. You have bought into Trinitarianism and it skews your understanding.

CrowCross said:
BTW, how did Jesus do all this creating when He had no pre-incarnate existence?
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He didn't.
 
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