The "IT" Logos

[Runningman]

The reason for his existence is God. God created him. In that sense Jesus Christ "came down from heaven."

Yes, just as the manna came down from heaven according to John 6. The manna didn't seem to have existed eternally prior to its arrival on earth's surface.

John 6
58This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.”

 

[Runningman]

Is that the ONLY meaning of that term?

Yes that's it. That's how it's always used in the bible based on what I have seen. That's also the English definition of the word.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

YHWH does not share his glory. If it is YHWH it cannot be angels

Well then Jesus is not YHWH because he shared it with his disciples in J 17

 

[shroom]

The crucifixion of Christ The Son of God was ordained from the foundation of the world.

It was. But it didn't happen until ~2000 years ago. The same is true about the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world was.

 

[shroom]

Your responses to these verses are laughably bad. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing if you were not using them to reject Christ and his salvation.

We all have our opinions.

So what? That Jesus was in God's plan doesn't even come close to exampling how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was.

It was in God's plan.

You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

Sure it is. It is to be understood in the same way that Christ was "slain from the foundaiton of the world."

Seriously dude, turn off that neon sign. It hurts my eyes.

Nobody is making you read my posts.

 

[shroom]

Personally both work for me and Jesus being pre-existent prior to the incarnation when the Word who was God became flesh.

The "incarnation" is a Trinitarian belief not found in the Bible.

I've seen Gen 1;1....and also read where God said, ...Let us make man in our image. I can give you the chapter and verse if you like.

Genesis 1:26. That was God speaking to the angels who were there with Him.

Jesus said, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5).

Previously addressed.

There is also....
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”

Previously addressed. But if you're going to insist saying ego eimi makes Jesus Christ God, the the formerly blind man in John 9:9 is also God.

John 9:9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I AM [ego eimi].

John the baptist said....
John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’”

Only Trinitarian translations have "existed before me." Jesus Christ was before Jesus Christ in prophecy, in preeminence, not time.

Do you have any verses that say "Christ came into existence at his birth

Christ came into existence at his conception, when God caused Mary to conceive. Jesus is a man (John 8:40), men do not preexist their conception.

or that he was a created being?"....

Men are created beings.

or are you going to hold onto the "sense" theology?

I'm going to hold onto the "sense" understanding of the verses we're discussing.

There's more but I tire of explaining this to you.

You aren't saying anything I haven't heard dozens of times before.

 

[Towerwatchman]

Well then Jesus is not YHWH because he shared it with his disciples in J 17

Well then Jesus is not YHWH because he shared it with his disciples in J 17

Stay focused , John 17 what?

 

[Tanachreader]

Well then Jesus is not YHWH because he shared it with his disciples in J 17

That Glory He shared is to know the Father through Him and for them to be one in us(Father and Son).

 

[Roger Thornhill]

Stay focused , John 17 what?

If you read John 17 it's clear. But I'll spoon feed you if you wish.

Isa 42:8 is of no use to you.

τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν (my Glory) at J 17:24 was given to Jesus by His Father and it's the glory he gave his disciples in verse 22.

That proof-text is dead.

 

[Tanachreader]

If you read John 17 it's clear. But I'll spoon feed you if you wish.

Isa 42:8 is of no use to you.

τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν (my Glory) at J 17:24 was given to Jesus by His Father and it's the glory he gave his disciples in verse 22.

That proof-text is dead.

That Glory is not the Glory God the Father shares with the Son.
King Herod once tried to appropriate God’s glory, and he was struck down for it. Lucifer, before his fall, also desired to ascend above God

He and His Father are one.
Deut 6:4
Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one!
9“For behold, I will wave My hand over them so that they will be spoil for their slaves. Then you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent Me. 10 “Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh.
Jesus is Yahweh.

 

[shroom]

Jesus is Yahweh.

Jesus' God is Yahweh.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

Your responses to these verses are laughably bad. I wouldn't be able to stop laughing if you were not using them to reject Christ and his salvation.

We all have our opinions.

When one's guilt is on display for all to see, side step the issue.

So what? That Jesus was in God's plan doesn't even come close to exampling how Jesus had glory with the Father before the world was.

It was in God's plan.

You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

Sure it is. It is to be understood in the same way that Christ was "slain from the foundaiton of the world."

Is your only response fear and panic? Can all you do is run away? You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

And, referencing "slain from the foundaiton of the world" only expresses your inability to read or think logically. Is the title on this book in which the names were written saying that Jesus will be slain on the cross like he was slain before the foundation of the world? Because that's what's going on in John 17:5. The differences couldn't be wider, but there you go trying to jump the Grand Cayaon on a pedal bike. Keep on showing us how desperate you are to justify your ridiculous positions. Such will keep us on our knees thanking God that he freed us from that desperation unto truth.

God Bless

 

[Runningman]

Jesus' God is Yahweh.

Psalm 22 is apparently a narrative of what the prophesied Messiah says regarding YHWH.

Psalm 22
10From birth I was cast upon You;
from my mother’s womb You have been my God.

 

[shroom]

When one's guilt is on display for all to see, side step the issue.



Is your only response fear and panic? Can all you do is run away? You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

And, referencing "slain from the foundaiton of the world" only expresses your inability to read or think logically. Is the title on this book in which the names were written saying that Jesus will be slain on the cross like he was slain before the foundation of the world? Because that's what's going on in John 17:5. The differences couldn't be wider, but there you go trying to jump the Grand Cayaon on a pedal bike. Keep on showing us how desperate you are to justify your ridiculous positions. Such will keep us on our knees thanking God that he freed us from that desperation unto truth.

God Bless

Feel better?

I'm not guilty, I have no fear or panic, I'm not desperate, my position is not ridiculous.

One day you'll be freed from the false doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Towerwatchman]

If you read John 17 it's clear. But I'll spoon feed you if you wish.

Isa 42:8 is of no use to you.

τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν (my Glory) at J 17:24 was given to Jesus by His Father and it's the glory he gave his disciples in verse 22.

That proof-text is dead.

Save the fathead comments. It’s your job to present complete arguments (chapter and verse) it’s not mine to either guess or do your homework, so I suggest you don’t gloat in your incompetence.
Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD, that is My name; (YHWH= expresses essence, existence, perfection) And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

Isaiah 42:8 glory of YHWH’s deity.
The Father did not give Jesus His deity, nor can the Creator bestow deity upon its creation. The glory mentioned in Isa which is the topic, is not the same glory mentioned in John 17.

Try not to gag, I only use xtra large spoons.

 

[DoctrinesofGraceBapt]

When one's guilt is on display for all to see, side step the issue.

Is your only response fear and panic? Can all you do is run away? You are describing God planing to share glory with Jesus while Jesus said he previously had glory with the Father. NOT THE SAME THING!!!

And, referencing "slain from the foundaiton of the world" only expresses your inability to read or think logically. Is the title on this book in which the names were written saying that Jesus will be slain on the cross like he was slain before the foundation of the world? Because that's what's going on in John 17:5. The differences couldn't be wider, but there you go trying to jump the Grand Cayaon on a pedal bike. Keep on showing us how desperate you are to justify your ridiculous positions. Such will keep us on our knees thanking God that he freed us from that desperation unto truth.

Feel better?

Sorry, no bad feelings. It is my job to "destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," 2 Corinthians 10:5. You choose to spit in Christ's face theologically/biblically, and it is my job to tear down your silliness.

I'm not guilty, I have no fear or panic, I'm not desperate, my position is not ridiculous.

Then, why are you acting like you are? One line comments? Short snippets expressing nothing but hubris and ignorance? Confident people either take their time to make a meaningful, God honoring response or ignore the entire discussion. The guilt, fearful, and panicked need to respond, but can't do so in a God honoring way, so report to how you regularly respond.

One day you'll be freed from the false doctrine of the Trinity.

That may be the case, but not by one expressing abject hatred for the pursuit of Truth like you do.

God Bless

 

[shroom]

Sorry, no bad feelings. It is my job to "destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," 2 Corinthians 10:5.

It’s mine too.

You choose to spit in Christ's face theologically/biblically,

That’s false. Jesus Christ is my Lord and savior. His God is my God.

and it is my job to tear down your silliness.

One day you’ll know it’s not silliness.

Then, why are you acting like you are? One line comments? Short snippets expressing nothing but hubris and ignorance? Confident people either take their time to make a meaningful, God honoring response or ignore the entire discussion. The guilt, fearful, and panicked need to respond, but can't do so in a God honoring way, so report to how you regularly respond.

There have been many times I’ve given detailed explanations of why I believe as I do. They fall of deaf ears. It seems that no matter what is shared, no matter what verses are given, no matter what reasons are given, peoples’ minds are made up, and they cannot accept that maybe they were wrong. This is especially true on theology forums. At some point it becomes an exercise in futility. I’ve seen your interactions with others. You’re civil at first, but if you can’t convince them of your Trinitarian beliefs, you frequently wind up attacking and belittling them. Who needs that?

That may be the case, but not by one expressing abject hatred for the pursuit of Truth like you do.

See what I mean? You’re being a jerk. Who needs it?

I love God, I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I love the truth.

God Bless

..right. No sane person tells someone they “have an abject hatred for the pursuit of Truth,” then signs off with “God Bless.”

 

[CrowCross]

Yes that's it. That's how it's always used in the bible based on what I have seen. That's also the English definition of the word.

Facepalm....the only way? OK, whatever you say.

 

[Roger Thornhill]

Save the fathead comments. It’s your job to present complete arguments (chapter and verse) it’s not mine to either guess or do your homework, so I suggest you don’t gloat in your incompetence.
Isaiah 42:8
I am the LORD, that is My name; (YHWH= expresses essence, existence, perfection) And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.

Isaiah 42:8 glory of YHWH’s deity.
The Father did not give Jesus His deity, nor can the Creator bestow deity upon its creation. The glory mentioned in Isa which is the topic, is not the same glory mentioned in John 17.

Try not to gag, I only use xtra large spoons.

That's irrelevant. Does God give His glory to another? No.

Did Jesus give his glory to another? Yes at J 17.

τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν = My glory at J 17:24.

Does not matter if it's the same glory. It's Jesus' personal glory. YHWH does not give his personal glory to another but Jesus did.

Jesus cannot be Jehovah.

It's super simple.

 

[Towerwatchman]

That's irrelevant. Does God give His glory to another? No.

Did Jesus give his glory to another? Yes at J 17.

τὴν δόξαν τὴν ἐμὴν = My glory at J 17:24.

Does not matter if it's the same glory. It's Jesus' personal glory. YHWH does not give his personal glory to another but Jesus did.

Jesus cannot be Jehovah.

It's super simple.

What you keep missing is that there are different types of glory. One’s that can and cannot be shared. Isa speaks of what cannot be shared, John does. They are not the same. But enough with your latest red herring, and back to the main topic.
if there are 3 YHWH in Gen 18:3 you have a problem. The Father has never been seen, the HS does not manifest himself, cannot be angels became YHWH does not share His glory. You have a problem to resolve.