1John 2:2, More Calvinist opinion

fltom

Well-known member
1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all men, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion. If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, ‘the whole world,’ is one which naturally embraces all men; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all men; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the ‘propitiation for the sins of the whole world’ in any proper sense, nor would it be possible then to assign a sense in which it could be true. This passage, interpreted in its plain and obvious meaning, teaches the following things: (1.) That the atonement in its own nature is adapted to all men, or that it is as much fitted to one individual, or one class, as another; (2,) that it is sufficient in merit for all; that is, that if any more should be saved than actually will be, there would be no need of any additional suffering in order to save them;

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: James to Jude (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 291–292.

His propitiation extends as widely as sin extends: see on 2 Pe 2:1, “denying the Lord that bought them.” “The whole world” cannot be restricted to the believing portion of the world (compare 1 Jn 4:14; and “the whole world,” 1 Jn 5:19). “Thou, too, art part of the world, so that thine heart cannot deceive itself and think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me” [LUTHER].

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 527.

And he (και αὐτος [kai autos]). He himself in his own person, both priest and sacrifice (Heb. 9:14). The propitiation (ἱλασμος [hilasmos]). Late substantive from ἱλασκομαι [hilaskomai] (Luke 18:13; Heb. 2:17), in LXX, Philo, Plutarch, in N. T. only here and 4:10. Christ himself is the means of propitiation for (περι [peri] concerning) our sins. See ἱλαστηριον [hilastērion] in Rom. 3:25. For the whole world (περι ὁλου του κοσμου [peri holou tou kosmou]). It is possible to supply the ellipsis here of των ἁμαρτιων [tōn hamartiōn] (the sins of) as we have it in Heb. 7:27, but a simpler way is just to regard “the whole world” as a mass of sin (5:19). At any rate, the propitiation by Christ provides for salvation for all (Heb. 2:9) if they will only be reconciled with God (2 Cor. 5:19–21)

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 1 Jn 2:2.
 
1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all men, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion. If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, ‘the whole world,’ is one which naturally embraces all men; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all men; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the ‘propitiation for the sins of the whole world’ in any proper sense, nor would it be possible then to assign a sense in which it could be true. This passage, interpreted in its plain and obvious meaning, teaches the following things: (1.) That the atonement in its own nature is adapted to all men, or that it is as much fitted to one individual, or one class, as another; (2,) that it is sufficient in merit for all; that is, that if any more should be saved than actually will be, there would be no need of any additional suffering in order to save them;

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: James to Jude (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 291–292.

His propitiation extends as widely as sin extends: see on 2 Pe 2:1, “denying the Lord that bought them.” “The whole world” cannot be restricted to the believing portion of the world (compare 1 Jn 4:14; and “the whole world,” 1 Jn 5:19). “Thou, too, art part of the world, so that thine heart cannot deceive itself and think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me” [LUTHER].

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 527.

And he (και αὐτος [kai autos]). He himself in his own person, both priest and sacrifice (Heb. 9:14). The propitiation (ἱλασμος [hilasmos]). Late substantive from ἱλασκομαι [hilaskomai] (Luke 18:13; Heb. 2:17), in LXX, Philo, Plutarch, in N. T. only here and 4:10. Christ himself is the means of propitiation for (περι [peri] concerning) our sins. See ἱλαστηριον [hilastērion] in Rom. 3:25. For the whole world (περι ὁλου του κοσμου [peri holou tou kosmou]). It is possible to supply the ellipsis here of των ἁμαρτιων [tōn hamartiōn] (the sins of) as we have it in Heb. 7:27, but a simpler way is just to regard “the whole world” as a mass of sin (5:19). At any rate, the propitiation by Christ provides for salvation for all (Heb. 2:9) if they will only be reconciled with God (2 Cor. 5:19–21)

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 1 Jn 2:2.
The Calvinists on this board have addressed this many times with you.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going over it with you again.
 
The Calvinists on this board have addressed this many times with you.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not going over it with you again.
Simply not satisfactorily

Will you accept the term the whole world encompasses all men without exception?
 
You are so pompous and self-important. Do you leave any room for God to sit with you on your throne?

Will you accept it doesn't?

He can't help it. He's predetermined according to your doctrine. In fact God predetermined both sides of your argument, right or wrong. God is arguing with Himself. You could be being deceived by God according to your doctrine.
 
You are so pompous and self-important. Do you leave any room for God to sit with you on your throne?


Will you accept it doesn't?
Nope

Scripture and lexicon refuted that idea

5. the world as mankind (Sib. Or. 1, 189)—a. gener. οὐαί τῷ κ. ἀπὸ τῶν σκανδάλων woe to mankind because of vexations Mt 18:7; τὸ φῶς τοῦ κ. the light for mankind 5:14; cf. J 8:12; 9:5. ὁ σωτὴρ τοῦ κ. 4:42; 1J 4:14 (this designation is found in the inscrs., esp. oft. of Hadrian [WWeber, Untersuchungen z. Geschichte des Kaisers Hadrianus ’07, 225; 226; 229]).—J 1:29; 3:17b; 17:6.—κρίνειν τὸν κ. (Sib. Or. 4, 184) Ro 3:6; B 4:12; cf. Ro 3:19. ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κ. εἰσῆλθεν 5:12; likew. θάνατος εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν κ. 1 Cl 3:4 (Wsd 2:24; 14:14). Cf. Ro 5:13; 1 Cor 1:27f. περικαθάρματα τοῦ κ. the refuse of mankind 4:13.—6:2a, b (Sallust. 21 p. 36, 13 the souls of the virtuous, together w. the gods, will rule the whole κόσμος); 2 Cor 1:12; 5:19; Js 2:5; 1J 2:2

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

1 John 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Nor can you believe as those Calvinists believed
 
Nope

Scripture and lexicon refuted that idea

5. the world as mankind (Sib. Or. 1, 189)—a. gener. οὐαί τῷ κ. ἀπὸ τῶν σκανδάλων woe to mankind because of vexations Mt 18:7; τὸ φῶς τοῦ κ. the light for mankind 5:14; cf. J 8:12; 9:5. ὁ σωτὴρ τοῦ κ. 4:42; 1J 4:14 (this designation is found in the inscrs., esp. oft. of Hadrian [WWeber, Untersuchungen z. Geschichte des Kaisers Hadrianus ’07, 225; 226; 229]).—J 1:29; 3:17b; 17:6.—κρίνειν τὸν κ. (Sib. Or. 4, 184) Ro 3:6; B 4:12; cf. Ro 3:19. ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κ. εἰσῆλθεν 5:12; likew. θάνατος εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν κ. 1 Cl 3:4 (Wsd 2:24; 14:14). Cf. Ro 5:13; 1 Cor 1:27f. περικαθάρματα τοῦ κ. the refuse of mankind 4:13.—6:2a, b (Sallust. 21 p. 36, 13 the souls of the virtuous, together w. the gods, will rule the whole κόσμος); 2 Cor 1:12; 5:19; Js 2:5; 1J 2:2

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

1 John 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Nor can you believe as those Calvinists believed
You have interesting opinions about things, Tom, and I disagree with a great many of them.
 
You have interesting opinions about things, Tom, and I disagree with a great many of them.
You have the right to be wrong

and as I noted

Scripture and lexicon refuted that idea

5. the world as mankind (Sib. Or. 1, 189)—a. gener. οὐαί τῷ κ. ἀπὸ τῶν σκανδάλων woe to mankind because of vexations Mt 18:7; τὸ φῶς τοῦ κ. the light for mankind 5:14; cf. J 8:12; 9:5. ὁ σωτὴρ τοῦ κ. 4:42; 1J 4:14 (this designation is found in the inscrs., esp. oft. of Hadrian [WWeber, Untersuchungen z. Geschichte des Kaisers Hadrianus ’07, 225; 226; 229]).—J 1:29; 3:17b; 17:6.—κρίνειν τὸν κ. (Sib. Or. 4, 184) Ro 3:6; B 4:12; cf. Ro 3:19. ἡ ἁμαρτία εἰς τὸν κ. εἰσῆλθεν 5:12; likew. θάνατος εἰσῆλθεν εἰς τὸν κ. 1 Cl 3:4 (Wsd 2:24; 14:14). Cf. Ro 5:13; 1 Cor 1:27f. περικαθάρματα τοῦ κ. the refuse of mankind 4:13.—6:2a, b (Sallust. 21 p. 36, 13 the souls of the virtuous, together w. the gods, will rule the whole κόσμος); 2 Cor 1:12; 5:19; Js 2:5; 1J 2:2

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.

1 John 2:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Nor can you believe as those Calvinists believed
 
1 John 2:2 (ESV) — 2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.


This is one of the expressions occurring in the New Testament which demonstrate that the atonement was made for all men, and which cannot be reconciled with any other opinion. If he had died only for a part of the race, this language could not have been used. The phrase, ‘the whole world,’ is one which naturally embraces all men; is such as would be used if it be supposed that the apostle meant to teach that Christ died for all men; and is such as cannot be explained on any other supposition. If he died only for the elect, it is not true that he is the ‘propitiation for the sins of the whole world’ in any proper sense, nor would it be possible then to assign a sense in which it could be true. This passage, interpreted in its plain and obvious meaning, teaches the following things: (1.) That the atonement in its own nature is adapted to all men, or that it is as much fitted to one individual, or one class, as another; (2,) that it is sufficient in merit for all; that is, that if any more should be saved than actually will be, there would be no need of any additional suffering in order to save them;

Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: James to Jude (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 291–292.

His propitiation extends as widely as sin extends: see on 2 Pe 2:1, “denying the Lord that bought them.” “The whole world” cannot be restricted to the believing portion of the world (compare 1 Jn 4:14; and “the whole world,” 1 Jn 5:19). “Thou, too, art part of the world, so that thine heart cannot deceive itself and think, The Lord died for Peter and Paul, but not for me” [LUTHER].

Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, and David Brown, Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (vol. 2; Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1997), 527.

And he (και αὐτος [kai autos]). He himself in his own person, both priest and sacrifice (Heb. 9:14). The propitiation (ἱλασμος [hilasmos]). Late substantive from ἱλασκομαι [hilaskomai] (Luke 18:13; Heb. 2:17), in LXX, Philo, Plutarch, in N. T. only here and 4:10. Christ himself is the means of propitiation for (περι [peri] concerning) our sins. See ἱλαστηριον [hilastērion] in Rom. 3:25. For the whole world (περι ὁλου του κοσμου [peri holou tou kosmou]). It is possible to supply the ellipsis here of των ἁμαρτιων [tōn hamartiōn] (the sins of) as we have it in Heb. 7:27, but a simpler way is just to regard “the whole world” as a mass of sin (5:19). At any rate, the propitiation by Christ provides for salvation for all (Heb. 2:9) if they will only be reconciled with God (2 Cor. 5:19–21)

A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 1 Jn 2:2.
Tom is now a universalist. Tom question begs all means all without exception.
 
Tom is now a universalist. Tom question begs all means all without exception.
Now you are fabricating

Neither Barnes, Robinson nor the authors of the FJB commentary are universalist and they are Calvinists
in good standing with their peers
 
Now you are fabricating

Neither Barnes, Robinson nor the authors of the FJB commentary are universalist and they are Calvinists
in good standing with their peers
In practice your a universalist. Deny it all you like. Universal atonement is universalism.
 
In practice your a universalist. Deny it all you like. Universal atonement is universalism.
You are ignornant.

Unlimited atonement is not universalism because no man is saved without faith in the atonement and the atonement maker.
 
You are ignornant.

Unlimited atonement is not universalism because no man is saved without faith in the atonement and the atonement maker.
Sure is. Either your sins are atoned for or their not. There is no such thing as potential atonement ever in scripture.
 
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