Challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

SavedByTheLord

SavedByTheLord

Well-known member
Here is simple challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give real evidence of anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

Scientists have looked everywhere. They have used amazing telescopes, even from space, and have peered into the far recesses of the universe. They have probed into matter and living things at the smallest of scales. They have built large particle colliders to smash particles together with enormous energies and analyzed the results. Mankind has been to the moon, landed probes on Mars, sent probes past all the planets, had close ups of comets, asteroids, and meteors. They have searched the very depths of the oceans, been to the mountaintops, drilled into the earth, been to Antarctica, searched deserts, rain forests, and drilled into glaciers. They have studied the sun, moon, earth, the planets, asteroids, comets, stars, galaxies, pulsars, quasars, star clusters, nova, supernova, neutron stars, dwarf stars, and black holes. They have analyzed proteins, enzymes, organs, and DNA from countless creatures. They have dug up many millions of fossils. They have searched for signs of aliens. They have analyzed tree rings, varves, ice cores, sediments, the spreading of the continental floor, and studied all the radioactive isotopes. They have very many equations, even used computers, and now will try AI.

And for all that, the only thing they have proved is that there is nothing older than about 6000 years old without an assumption. On the contrary, they have proved that God Almighty exists, that God created all things about 6000 years ago in 6 days, and that the Bible is true. Here are some pertinent passages from the word of God.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. – Psalm 19:1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, - Romans 1:18-22

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. – Psalm 139:14

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. – 2 Tim 3:7

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. – 2 Thess 2:8-12

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. – 2 Tim 3:13

I have already provided several proofs that the Bible is the word of God, and that God created all things about 6000 years ago.

The first proof, entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof” in the Atheism/… forum, used the law of non-contradiction to prove God created all things. Assume there is no God. That leads to many contradictions. The most glaring contradiction is that living things should not exist, but they do. Therefore, the no God assumption is false and its opposite, that God is the Creator of all things is true. That also proves the Bible is the word of God. A large list of contradictions is found in the thread entitled “Questions that disprove billions of yrs and evolution and prove that the Bible is true and God created all things in 6 days, 6000 years ago” in the Evolution ... forum.​

The second proof, entitled “Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God” and is in the Evolution … forum, used mathematical induction to prove God created all things. This proof used intelligently designed objects to prove the existence of an intelligent creator. But living things dwarf all man-made things and so that proved that God created all things. That too proves the Bible is the word of God.​

Two direct proofs that the Bible is the true word of God have also been provided. These also prove that God created all things about 6000 years ago, in 6 days. One used the amazing many predictions that the Bible made which have come true in exact detail and with exact timing, in our very time. This is found in the thread entitled “The Bible predicted many things which have come true in exact detail and with exact timing. This proves that the Bible is the true word of God” and is in the Evolution … forum.​

The other proof used the advanced scientific knowledge contained in the Bible. These were made before they were discovered in modern times. This is found in the thread entitled “Advance scientific knowledge found in the Bible prove that the Bible is the true word of God” and is in the Atheism/ … forum.​

That is 5 proofs of each but there is more. In a future proof, I will show that the Bible is the very word of God Almighty. This is easily shown because the Bible is unlike any book ever written. Not only does it get the history correct, not only does it make these amazing prophecies that have come true, not only does it contain this advanced scientific knowledge, but it is like no other book ever written. It shows itself to be authored an intelligence beyond all of mankind. Written by about 40 authors over a period of about 1600 years, it is seamlessly woven and completely self-consistent. Yet most of these authors never met it other. It is never wrong about anything and nothing has ever proven anything in it wrong. No archeological evidence has ever proven it wrong. And finally, there are millions of witnesses that can testify to its truth. Millions of the saved, many even very evil people, their lives absolutely changed as they were born again by belief of the gospel of Chist and have become a new creature. They can testify to the presence of the Holy Spirit in them. They can testify how the word of God is a living word of God that speaks intimately about the things, people, and events in their lives. And man have witnessed miracles in the lives as God granted their prayers.​

Please also read the thread entitled, “The certainty and justice of everlasting torment in the lake of fire” in the Atheism forum. You need to know this if you are not saved. And then read the thread entitled, “Where will you spend eternity” in the Apologetics forum on how to escape damnation.​

 
SavedByTheLord said:
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. – Psalm 19:1
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This is a claim only.
SavedByTheLord said:
I have already provided several proofs that the Bible is the word of God, and that God created all things about 6000 years ago.
Click to expand...
No you haven't.
SavedByTheLord said:
The first proof, entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things.
Click to expand...
You make an assumption here where you have declared no assumptions allowed. Whether there was a first living thing or not, if naturalism is true then living things could not have come about by random chance, but they would come about within the constraints of the laws of physics and chemistry which therefore would not be coming about by random chance.
 
SavedByTheLord said:
AI.

And for all that, the only thing they have proved is that there is nothing older than about 6000 years old without an assumption. On the contrary, they have proved that God Almighty exists, that God created all things about 6000 years ago in 6 days, and that the Bible is true. Here are some pertinent passages from the word of God.

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. – Psalm 19:1

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, - Romans 1:18-22

I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. – Psalm 139:14

Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. – 2 Tim 3:7

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. – 2 Thess 2:8-12

But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. – 2 Tim 3:13

I have already provided several proofs that the Bible is the word of God, and that God created all things about 6000 years ago.

The first proof, entitled “The first living thing could not have come into being by random chance, therefore, God Almighty created all things. Just 1 proof” in the Atheism/… forum, used the law of non-contradiction to prove God created all things. Assume there is no God. That leads to many contradictions. The most glaring contradiction is that living things should not exist, but they do. Therefore, the no God assumption is false and its opposite, that God is the Creator of all things is true. That also proves the Bible is the word of God. A large list of contradictions is found in the thread entitled “Questions that disprove billions of yrs and evolution and prove that the Bible is true and God created all things in 6 days, 6000 years ago” in the Evolution ... forum.​

The second proof, entitled “Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God” and is in the Evolution … forum, used mathematical induction to prove God created all things. This proof used intelligently designed objects to prove the existence of an intelligent creator. But living things dwarf all man-made things and so that proved that God created all things. That too proves the Bible is the word of God.​

Two direct proofs that the Bible is the true word of God have also been provided. These also prove that God created all things about 6000 years ago, in 6 days. One used the amazing many predictions that the Bible made which have come true in exact detail and with exact timing, in our very time. This is found in the thread entitled “The Bible predicted many things which have come true in exact detail and with exact timing. This proves that the Bible is the true word of God” and is in the Evolution … forum.​

The other proof used the advanced scientific knowledge contained in the Bible. These were made before they were discovered in modern times. This is found in the thread entitled “Advance scientific knowledge found in the Bible prove that the Bible is the true word of God” and is in the Atheism/ … forum.​

That is 5 proofs of each but there is more. In a future proof, I will show that the Bible is the very word of God Almighty. This is easily shown because the Bible is unlike any book ever written. Not only does it get the history correct, not only does it make these amazing prophecies that have come true, not only does it contain this advanced scientific knowledge, but it is like no other book ever written. It shows itself to be authored an intelligence beyond all of mankind. Written by about 40 authors over a period of about 1600 years, it is seamlessly woven and completely self-consistent. Yet most of these authors never met it other. It is never wrong about anything and nothing has ever proven anything in it wrong. No archeological evidence has ever proven it wrong. And finally, there are millions of witnesses that can testify to its truth. Millions of the saved, many even very evil people, their lives absolutely changed as they were born again by belief of the gospel of Chist and have become a new creature. They can testify to the presence of the Holy Spirit in them. They can testify how the word of God is a living word of God that speaks intimately about the things, people, and events in their lives. And man have witnessed miracles in the lives as God granted their prayers.​

Please also read the thread entitled, “The certainty and justice of everlasting torment in the lake of fire” in the Atheism forum. You need to know this if you are not saved. And then read the thread entitled, “Where will you spend eternity” in the Apologetics forum on how to escape damnation.​

Click to expand...
No assumptions allowed. You fail.
 
Scientists have looked everywhere. They have used amazing telescopes, even from space, and have peered into the far recesses of the universe. They have probed into matter and living things at the smallest of scales. They have built large particle colliders to smash particles together with enormous energies and analyzed the results. Mankind has been to the moon, landed probes on Mars, sent probes past all the planets, had close ups of comets, asteroids, and meteors. They have searched the very depths of the oceans, been to the mountaintops, drilled into the earth, been to Antarctica, searched deserts, rain forests, and drilled into glaciers. They have studied the sun, moon, earth, the planets, asteroids, comets, stars, galaxies, pulsars, quasars, star clusters, nova, supernova, neutron stars, dwarf stars, and black holes. They have analyzed proteins, enzymes, organs, and DNA from countless creatures. They have dug up many millions of fossils. They have searched for signs of aliens. They have analyzed tree rings, varves, ice cores, sediments, the spreading of the continental floor, and studied all the radioactive isotopes. They have very many equations, even used computers, and now will tryAI.

They have found countless reasons to confirm that the universe is over 13 billion years old, that the earth is 4 billion years old, that life on earth is over 3 billion years old and that modern humans are 300,000 years old .
 
Temujin said:
Scientists have looked everywhere. They have used amazing telescopes, even from space, and have peered into the far recesses of the universe. They have probed into matter and living things at the smallest of scales. They have built large particle colliders to smash particles together with enormous energies and analyzed the results. Mankind has been to the moon, landed probes on Mars, sent probes past all the planets, had close ups of comets, asteroids, and meteors. They have searched the very depths of the oceans, been to the mountaintops, drilled into the earth, been to Antarctica, searched deserts, rain forests, and drilled into glaciers. They have studied the sun, moon, earth, the planets, asteroids, comets, stars, galaxies, pulsars, quasars, star clusters, nova, supernova, neutron stars, dwarf stars, and black holes. They have analyzed proteins, enzymes, organs, and DNA from countless creatures. They have dug up many millions of fossils. They have searched for signs of aliens. They have analyzed tree rings, varves, ice cores, sediments, the spreading of the continental floor, and studied all the radioactive isotopes. They have very many equations, even used computers, and now will tryAI.

They have found countless reasons to confirm that the universe is over 13 billion years old, that the earth is 4 billion years old, that life on earth is over 3 billion years old and that modern humans are 300,000 years old .
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Name one.
 
Some evidence for the universe being more than 6000 years old:
  • Ancient starlight
  • Geology
  • Evolution (eg nested hierarchy, genetics)
  • Tree-rings (they go back nearly 14,000 years)
  • Uranium–lead dating
  • Samarium–neodymium dating
  • Potassium–argon dating
  • Rubidium–strontium dating
  • Uranium–thorium dating
  • Radiocarbon dating
  • Fission track dating
  • Chlorine-36 dating
  • Permafrost
Here are three Christian web sites that give more details.

Two Reliable Tools Provide Evidence for an Old Earth

Calculating Earth’s age remains a contentious area of study that often divides Christians and keeps scientifically minded skeptics from considering evidence for the Christian faith. Nevertheless, two methods of determining age—radiometric dating and tectonic plate movement—stand to resolve...
reasons.org reasons.org
biologos.org

Old-Earth (Progressive) Creationism: History and Beliefs - BioLogos

biologos.org biologos.org
 
The Pixie said:
Some evidence for the universe being more than 6000 years old:
  • Ancient starlight
  • Geology
  • Evolution (eg nested hierarchy, genetics)
  • Tree-rings (they go back nearly 14,000 years)
  • Uranium–lead dating
  • Samarium–neodymium dating
  • Potassium–argon dating
  • Rubidium–strontium dating
  • Uranium–thorium dating
  • Radiocarbon dating
  • Fission track dating
  • Chlorine-36 dating
  • Permafrost
Here are three Christian web sites that give more details.

Two Reliable Tools Provide Evidence for an Old Earth

Calculating Earth’s age remains a contentious area of study that often divides Christians and keeps scientifically minded skeptics from considering evidence for the Christian faith. Nevertheless, two methods of determining age—radiometric dating and tectonic plate movement—stand to resolve...
reasons.org reasons.org
biologos.org

Old-Earth (Progressive) Creationism: History and Beliefs - BioLogos

biologos.org biologos.org
Click to expand...
They all have an assumption.
Dating as many assumptions. These lead to varying results. There are many clocks that limit the age of the universe and the earth.
DNA limits the age of mankind to thousands of years.
Permafrost means nothing with the worldwide changes.
All geology agrees with the Biblical timeframe.
And analysis of starlight has a number of assumptions. Remember God created the light in transit so when He creates the distant objects their light had already reached the earth.
tree rings do not show what you claim. The oldest living tree are about 4300 years old.
 
SavedByTheLord said:
Here is simple challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give real evidence of anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.
Click to expand...
I noted earlier today -- when you made this "challenge" on another thread -- that if you are claiming that any evidence which contains assumptions is not "real evidence," then there is no such thing as "real evidence," since every claim you could possibly make contains some assumptions, whether implicit or explicit.

You did not dispute this fact. So why are you back making the same nonsensical demand?

ETA: If you want to dispute this now, there's a simple way you can do so: offer an example of a claim or argument that X is evidence for Y, which does not contain any assumptions. I guarantee you won't be able to do so.
 
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SavedByTheLord said:
They all have an assumption.
Dating as many assumptions. These lead to varying results. There are many clocks that limit the age of the universe and the earth.
DNA limits the age of mankind to thousands of years.
Permafrost means nothing with the worldwide changes.
All geology agrees with the Biblical timeframe.
And analysis of starlight has a number of assumptions. Remember God created the light in transit so when He creates the distant objects their light had already reached the earth.
tree rings do not show what you claim. The oldest living tree are about 4300 years old.
Click to expand...
You have an assumption. You assume, without evidence, that all these independent and different methods are wrong, because they all give a result that you cannot cope with.
 
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