Choice

[Manfred]

Interesting you can quote God saying "Well done" and then deny it.

You think me so fickle.

Try and read for better understanding.
Here is what I said: God leads us by His Spirit. The leading of the Spirit can be resisted by the fallen self will nature.
Where is the denial you are talking about?

 

[Manfred]

Yes, we require spiritual revelation. Obviously you misunderstood me..
Again spiritual revelation is necessary, but it is delivered to our natural minds.

It is delivered to our hearts BTW
Paul would not have written a passage that explains how the flesh is in opposition to the Spirit, and then to advise that we walk in the Spirit.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, not as you state above that Spiritual things are naturally discerned.

You directly contradict scripture and still expect a pat on the back....

 

[Sethproton]

You think me so fickle.

Try and read for better understanding.
Here is what I said: God leads us by His Spirit. The leading of the Spirit can be resisted by the fallen self will nature.
Where is the denial you are talking about?

yes, that was a part of your post, not the whole thing.

 

[Sethproton]

It is delivered to our hearts BTW
Paul would not have written a passage that explains how the flesh is in opposition to the Spirit, and then to advise that we walk in the Spirit.
Spiritual things are spiritually discerned, not as you state above that Spiritual things are naturally discerned.

You directly contradict scripture and still expect a pat on the back....

I don't think you can quote me saying that spiritual things are naturally discerned,

One of our problems here is we are set to automatically disagree with every post regardless of the content.
Perhaps if you read my post for understanding instead of just looking for a way to disagree, we might have a better chat

 

[Manfred]

Funny you can never prove any of your claims

nor can you address rebuttal

You are unable to spiritually discern any of those scriptures, for the natural man cannot discern the spiritual.

You do believe the natural man can discern those scriptures, don't you?

 

[Manfred]

Yes. That is what we all agree on. Nobody is saying anything different.

You posted the opposite.

Here is a reminder:
"Again spiritual revelation is necessary, but it is delivered to our natural minds."
Natural mind discernment vs Spiritual discernment

 

[Manfred]

yes, that was a part of your post, not the whole thing.

So then show me what I denied?

 

[Sethproton]

So then show me what I denied?

No, since you intentionally reposted only the part you felt proved your point, you show you are not interested.
we will talk more later about other things i am sure

 

[Manfred]

I don't think you can quote me saying that spiritual things are naturally discerned,

One of our problems here is we are set to automatically disagree with every post regardless of the content.
Perhaps if you read my post for understanding instead of just looking for a way to disagree, we might have a better chat

"When a person has an understanding of scripture that makes no sense to the natural mind, but they claim that the Spirit is teaching them to interpret scripture in this illogical way, we know that there is a problem."

Every time you take a poke at something like you do above, it shows your trust is in your natural interpretation of scripture, and that you think Spiritual discernment is illogical and made up.

Take credit where credit is due.

 

[Sethproton]

You posted the opposite.

Here is a reminder:
"Again spiritual revelation is necessary, but it is delivered to our natural minds."
Natural mind discernment vs Spiritual discernment

you said we must trust God and stick with Him. I agreed,
as far as having natural mind discernment vs Spiritual discernment, you seem to see that as if we have two intellects, one natural and one spiritual. I see one. If it listens to and acts on spiritual things it is spiritual. otherwise it is natural

 

[Manfred]

No, since you intentionally reposted only the part you felt proved your point, you show you are not interested.
we will talk more later about other things i am sure

Here is the whole thing, so now you can show me surely where I denied it:

Manfred said:
It seems that you are backed into a corner.

God leads us by His Spirit. The leading of the Spirit can be resisted by the fallen self will nature.
The parable of the servants prove it.

You expect to get a pat on the back and a well done my good and faithful servant by doing good works in the flesh?

"And I will say to those on my right, depart from me you doers of evil, for I never knew you"

 

[Manfred]

you said we must trust God and stick with Him. I agreed,
as far as having natural mind discernment vs Spiritual discernment, you seem to see that as if we have two intellects, one natural and one spiritual. I see one. If it listens to and acts on spiritual things it is spiritual. otherwise it is natural

If one is lead by the Spirit of God, he convicts your heart and you act accordingly.
When you are lead by the flesh, you make choices in your mind and act on them. The mind is not yet redeemed, for now we see in a glass darkly.

When scripture says we have the mind of Christ, do you think your carnal mind disappeared.

 

[TomFL]

You are unable to spiritually discern any of those scriptures, for the natural man cannot discern the spiritual.

You do believe the natural man can discern those scriptures, don't you?

Sorry your interpretation is faulty

Is prophesy a thing of the spirit ?

So when God gives a warning through a message of prophesy are you really going to claim it cannot be understood

Proof the gospel can be understood

  - Preaching the Gospel !

Grace is antecedent in the preservation of the saints ! Ps 37:28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. The saints are preserved forever, that is their spiritual interest in Christ. Now it is a...

forums.carm.org

 

[Ladodgers6]

I think you have confused some things together. If a person thinks they can do righteous works to merit salvation, they are wrong. Those attempts are not honored by God. But when it comes to doing good deeds and good works simply out of love for God, He is pleased with that.
You seem to be mixing the two up.
No works can win salvation.
But God loves people doing works that show His love

Honest question, are you just trolling? Because it seems to me. You get pieces of what people say here. And then you try to present your case or trolling to stay engaged to troll.

 

[Sethproton]

Honest question, are you just trolling? Because it seems to me. You get pieces of what people say here. And then you try to present your case or trolling to stay engaged to troll.

My goal here is to discuss the Bible. Address doctrines that seem contrary to it, learn from others who know things I do not

 

[harfad]

It seems that you are backed into a corner.

God leads us by His Spirit. The leading of the Spirit can be resisted by the fallen self will nature.
The parable of the servants prove it.

You expect to get a pat on the back and a well done my good and faithful servant by doing good works in the flesh?

"And I will say to those on my right, depart from me you doers of evil, for I never knew you"

You are confusing too many different Bible verses together. You are mixing up Matthew 7:23 with Matthew 25:21, 34, 41. Here they are:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[Manfred]

You are confusing too many different Bible verses together. You are mixing up Matthew 7:23 with Matthew 25:21, 34, 41. Here they are:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Essentially what you have to do is think about how you are saved or not saved in order for any of those scriptures to apply.

Do you think Matt 7:23 applies to Spirit lead believers, or rather to those false prophets and teachers the Bible warns us about.
Jesus said to those, that He NEVER knew them. That disqualifies any believer who is in Christ. Chosen from before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him.

If you look at Matt 25:21, can you see that it applies to believers, who were lead by the Spirit and was used of God to His glory. Paul writes about crowns as an expectation.

Unless I am missing your point?

 

[Manfred]

You are confusing too many different Bible verses together. You are mixing up Matthew 7:23 with Matthew 25:21, 34, 41. Here they are:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Welcome to CARM by the way

 

[harfad]

Essentially what you have to do is think about how you are saved or not saved in order for any of those scriptures to apply.

But if you are going to mix them all up together, you are not going to get any meaning out of them to decide whether you are by any of them or not!

Do you think Matt 7:23 applies to Spirit lead believers, or rather to those false prophets and teachers the Bible warns us about.

It tells you. It says, "Ye that work iniquity". The condemnation comes because of their doing evil, not for any other reason. If you read the context of that passage (verses 24-27) you will find that it is all about doing good, and avoiding evil.

Jesus said to those, that He NEVER knew them.

That is a metaphor implying that he had rejected them because of their evil deeds, not that he literally never knew them.

That disqualifies any believer who is in Christ.

Again, read the context. It is not about believing, it is about doing.

Chosen from before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him.

Not without obeying, see above.

If you look at Matt 25:21, can you see that it applies to believers, who were lead by the Spirit and was used of God to His glory.

That is not how I read it. The way I read it, it is all about action, doing something, not just believing.

Paul writes about crowns as an expectation.

Agreed, but according to Matt 25, it has a lot more to do with action, doing things, than just believing. Read the context.

Unless I am missing your point?

You seem to be!

Welcome to CARM by the way

Thank you! I am an occasional lurker, but I became interested in this thread, so I read it all the way through, and finally decided to sign up and make a comment.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I think you have confused some things together. If a person thinks they can do righteous works to merit salvation, they are wrong. Those attempts are not honored by God. But when it comes to doing good deeds and good works simply out of love for God, He is pleased with that.
You seem to be mixing the two up.

This comment is obvious that you do not read our posts , you are just skimming over them. To continue your trolling, Seth. I will prove it. You are charging that we believe in a works-righteousness approach to Salvation. This is true, because without the Perfect Righteousness of Christ fulfilling the Law for us. We would be doomed. But as far as a sinner attempting to do this, it is a mission impossible! But I know you are not referring to the former, but the later. So then Seth, provide the our posts were we suggest such a thing?

No works can win salvation.

Yes works can merit Salvation; Christ's works! But one has to be perfectly holy without a single blemish of sin. Which is why God sent Christ to fulfill the Law in our place!

But God loves people doing works that show His love

Yes, as Believers now free from the condemnation and curse of the Law, can now walk in holiness, doing good works.