Jewjitzu
Well-known member
He cried and offered the prayers of a penitent, prosenekas.
Christ our Substitute - How?
- Thread starter Stephen
- Start date
Do you have any Old Testament examples of redeemers taking the place of those they redeemed (as the definition of the word substitute requires).
Or are you just making stuff up?
GeneZ
Well-known member
There is only one redeemer like that. You are treating it like it should be a common practice before it can be true..
GeneZ
Well-known member
Tell us what "prosenekas" means, please.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
The prayers of a sinner seeking salvation.
Actually it means -- to bring to, to offer.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
And in context to bring the personal prayers of a sinner.
GeneZ
Well-known member
You ever have that in your life?
GeneZ
Well-known member
So then the prophet Jeremiah was no good, too?
For he is called the the "weeping prophet."
Was he weeping because he was a sinner seeking salvation?
Or, was it because of the horrific degenerate things most Jews were doing in his day?
Having their ritualistic pagan sex orgies and throwing their children into fire for sacrifice?
Shlomo... how ya doing?
For he is called the the "weeping prophet."
Was he weeping because he was a sinner seeking salvation?
Or, was it because of the horrific degenerate things most Jews were doing in his day?
Having their ritualistic pagan sex orgies and throwing their children into fire for sacrifice?
Shlomo... how ya doing?
There is old testament teaching on the topic "redeemer" and it informs us of what Christ does for us. Nowhere in the old testament redeemer teachings does it say the redeemer took the place of the person being redeemed. For you to assert that "there is only one redeemer like that" without actually explaining it means that you are elevating stuff you imagined over the old testament teaching.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
Yes, in terms of forgiveness. Jesus did the same. He's only a man.
Jewjitzu
Well-known member
All prophets cry over their own sins and that of Israel.
Sure.
Sure.
Sure.
Great. But I ain't Shlomo.
Yokefellow
Member
There are some that interpret the shedding of Blood as simply a metaphor referring to the death of Jesus.
Example:
"Robert Thieme argued that the "blood of Christ" as mentioned in the bible is a mere metaphor for his death, arguing that the real blood of Christ has no significance in the atonement. Because this position was not held by other faculty members of Dallas theological seminary it caused a local controversy."
Robert Thieme - Wikipedia
I am of the opinion that the Blood of Jesus is way more literal than what folks like Robert Thieme believed. When Jesus sprinkled his Blood in the Most Holy Place, it spoke better things than that of Abel's...
Hebrews 12:24
"And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
I believe the 'substitute' has to do with the sprinkling of Blood on the Ark of the Covenant, etc. In other words, the Blood of Jesus is sprinkled in our place. Therefore, the Atonement is done once and is everlasting.
Not' it means to bring of yourself to offer yourself a living sacrifice, relinquish your own needs to help the one in need.
You guys are under elementary teachings of man in opinions -- Spirit of God is His life blood, blood gives life, one cant live without it. Not in the flesh nor in the Spirit of God. That blood,( Spirit), was spilt that we may have that same life blood from God Himself, you cant live in Gods kingdom at all without it. People dont listen to Jesus, He was clear in Like 17:20-21 that the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it isn't something we observe, it is within you, and either that same blood that was spilt from Jesus, (Spirit), flows in you that gives you His life to live as your own, then you are not of Gods kingdom at all.There are some that interpret the shedding of Blood as simply a metaphor referring to the death of Jesus.
Example:
"Robert Thieme argued that the "blood of Christ" as mentioned in the bible is a mere metaphor for his death, arguing that the real blood of Christ has no significance in the atonement. Because this position was not held by other faculty members of Dallas theological seminary it caused a local controversy."
Robert Thieme - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I am of the opinion that the Blood of Jesus is way more literal than what folks like Robert Thieme believed. When Jesus sprinkled his Blood in the Most Holy Place, it spoke better things than that of Abel's...
Hebrews 12:24
"And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
I believe the 'substitute' has to do with the sprinkling of Blood on the Ark of the Covenant, etc. In other words, the Blood of Jesus is sprinkled in our place. Therefore, the Atonement is done once and is everlasting.
Yokefellow
Member
As a side note, there is a Halot that loves to drink Blood...
Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."
Who drank the Blood of slain Abel?
Genesis 4:11
"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand"
Who will disclose Her Blood? Who 'covers' the slain?
Isaiah 26:21
"For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."
How does the Blood of Jesus relate to all of this? How did the ransom purchase transaction work?
Acts 20:28
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
Where did the Blood of Abel go once 'She' drank it?
Matthew 23:35
"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
Who exactly is Jesus making the payment to?
Was she satisfied with said payment?
Revelation 18:24
"And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth."
Who drank the Blood of slain Abel?
Genesis 4:11
"And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand"
Who will disclose Her Blood? Who 'covers' the slain?
Isaiah 26:21
"For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain."
How does the Blood of Jesus relate to all of this? How did the ransom purchase transaction work?
Acts 20:28
"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
Where did the Blood of Abel go once 'She' drank it?
Matthew 23:35
"That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar."
Who exactly is Jesus making the payment to?
Was she satisfied with said payment?
preacher4truth
Well-known member
So do you believe that Jesus literally sprinkled His blood? If so, how exactly do you see it taking place?There are some that interpret the shedding of Blood as simply a metaphor referring to the death of Jesus.
Example:
"Robert Thieme argued that the "blood of Christ" as mentioned in the bible is a mere metaphor for his death, arguing that the real blood of Christ has no significance in the atonement. Because this position was not held by other faculty members of Dallas theological seminary it caused a local controversy."
Robert Thieme - Wikipedia
I am of the opinion that the Blood of Jesus is way more literal than what folks like Robert Thieme believed. When Jesus sprinkled his Blood in the Most Holy Place, it spoke better things than that of Abel's...
Hebrews 12:24
"And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel."
I believe the 'substitute' has to do with the sprinkling of Blood on the Ark of the Covenant, etc. In other words, the Blood of Jesus is sprinkled in our place. Therefore, the Atonement is done once and is everlasting.
Yokefellow
Member
Yes, like this...
Hebrews 9:12
"Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Yes, I agree with that text but I am not seeing how there was literal sprinkling.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
Bro, I'm seeing those texts as figurative. The earth doesn't have a literal mouth. Also, I don't see it as the literal blood of Abel and all the righteous coming on others.
Lastly, you're assuming Christ made a payment to whom? Sounds like a woman "Was she satisfied with said payment?"