Codex Sinaiticus and Constantine Simonides - was Simonides calligraphy skills good enough to forge the Codex Siniaticus?

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

Was his calligraphy skills good enough to forge the Codex Siniaticus?

• What was Simonides handwriting like?
• What was Simonides' hiero-monarchos Kallinikos handwriting like?
• What was monarchos Kallinikos handwriting in the Mt Athos manuscripts listed as number (6406, 8399) in the Lambros catalogue of Mt Athos like? Is it the exact same handwriting as in his 1860's letters to the news papers? (You would expect it to be to a reasonable degree - same with Simonides').

Do his known forgeries written in Greek Uncial (uppercase or capitals) script look anything like the Greek Uncial handwriting(s) of the main three Scribes uppercase handwriting in the Codex Siniaticus?

This thread will require images and links to photographs of his forgeries, letters, books etc with his known handwriting.

In the 1860's (Simonides time), it was also testified, in front of multiple witnesses, that at least one letter that professed to be written from Simonides Kallinikos to a newspaper was written in Simonides own personal handwriting (in standard modern Greek style i.e. lowercase) which was discovered by a side by side comparison with known letters Simonides had written to certain people.

Is it possible to do the same today?

Some of Simonides correspondence has survived in museums and universities and private collections down to today.

So feel free to post any images, screenshots, or links to examples of:

• Simonides' handwriting
• Simonides' known forgeries
• Young Simonides' handwriting in the Mt Athos manuscripts listed in the Lambros catalogue
• Kallinikos' handwriting
• Kallinikos' letters
• Especially - the Kallinikos handwriting in the Mt Athos manuscripts listed in the Lambros catalogue
• Benedict's handwriting in the Mt Athos manuscripts listed in the Lambros catalogue

NOTE: Malcolm Choat, Yuen-Collingridge, and Tommy Wasserman are the current world experts on Simonides handwriting and forgeries. Will post links to there online platforms which will have there contact info.

NOTE: The manuscripts referred to above at Mt Athos can be viewed (if they have been digitised yet) by filling out a request form on their website. Will post link later (on my phone right now and don't have all my research files available).

NOTE: Distinction needs to be made between Simonides' hiero-monarchos Kallinikos and the multiple monarchos Kallinikos's at Mt Athos, and the hiero-monarchos Kallinikos at Mt Sinai etc.

 

[cjab]

This link provides examples of Simonides many forgeries (Joseph Mayer Collection, Liverpool Museum)

Here is page 214 in Montfaucon's Paleography (Palaeographia Graeca 1708) from which Simonides allegedly learned his uncial script (according to Lykourgos).

 

[cjab]

Some of the original letters are held by Trinity College, Cambridge, but don't appear to be online (in archive).

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

Some of the original letters are held by Trinity College, Cambridge, but don't appear to be online (in archive).

William Aldis Wright was in Trinity college. I think (by memory) he did the Kallinikos handwriting expose'.

I wonder if someone could write to Trinity college and request if the letters can be digitised?

I've had success with at least two institutions in the past with similar kinds of requests. It's got a lot to do with funding and priorities at the time. Example. British national library, they were going to carry through one of my requests about a manuscript, but we're dead smack in the middle of shifting the entire library because of major renovations and needed every hand on deck, so couldn't do it, and there was insufficient funding for the particular language manuscript at the time. The BnF, digitised a document at my request and contacted me to let me know they had finished the job and it was online. Same with Michigan state University in America.

So worth a try.

 

[cjab]

They seem to have some archive stuff digitized here.

The contact email is [email protected].

I don't have any academic credentials or professional interest in this subject: not sure they'd take any notice of me.

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

They seem to have some archive stuff digitized here.

The contact email is [email protected].

I don't have any academic credentials or professional interest in this subject: not sure they'd take any notice of me.

Worth a try. You just never know.

 

[Steven Avery]

Was his calligraphy skills good enough ... Codex Siniaticus?

A good question with many elements of study.

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

I'm going to be busy over next couple of weeks, so will have limited interaction here unfortunately. But I'll post when I can.

I've got a small amount of time today that's run out.

 

[Steven Avery]

NOTE: Malcolm Choat, Yuen-Collingridge, and Tommy Wasserman are the current world experts on Simonides handwriting and forgeries.

Malcolm Choat is a gentleman and a scholar. We were discussing today the forthcoming publication from the Forging Antiquities project, and some other stuff. (There are some letters that would be nice to be available pre-publication.)

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

Steven Avery

Let's review some Kallinikos material:

=======================

When Simonides wrote to Kallinikos on the issues involving the hieroglyphics, how would you describe that Kallinikos?

This was translated for the Forging Antiquities project at Macquarie University and is not yet published.

=======================

Also we have this interesting listing in the:

British Library catalogue

Αὐτογραφα του διδακτορος και ἱπποτου Κωνσταντινου λ. φ. Σιμωνιδου ἐξαχθεντα ἐξ ἐπιστολων και ἑτερων αὐτου ἐγγραφων ... ἁπερ και ἐκδιδονται αὐτογραφιᾳ ὐπο Καλλινικου Ἱερομοναχου, etc. - British Library​

Αὐτογραφα του διδακτορος και ἱπποτου Κωνσταντινου λ. φ. Σιμωνιδου ἐξαχθεντα ἐξ ἐπιστολων και ἑτερων αὐτου ἐγγραφων ... ἁπερ και ἐκδιδονται αὐτογραφιᾳ ὐπο Καλλινικου Ἱερομοναχου, etc..

Autographs of the doctor and knight Konstantinos L. f. Simonidos extracted from his letters and other documents ... and are published as autographs of Kallinikos Hieromonachs, etc.. (1853)

============================

Then we have the entry from Luciano Canfora given in the timeline from Lilia Diamantopoulou:

Der Mönch Kallinikos verfasst in Moskau die biographische Skizze zu Simonides und veröffentlicht Simonides Αρχαιολογικόν σπουδαιοδρόμιον, das Alexander Sturtza gewidmet ist (Kallinikos 1853, Γ; in Canfora 2012, 370-1).

The monk Kallinikos wrote the biographical sketch of Simonides in Moscow and published Simonides' Archaeology University, dedicated to Alexander Sturtza (Kallinikos 1853, Γ; in Canfora 2012, 370-1).

Die getäuschte Wissenschaft - A Genius Fools Europe p. 318

Referencing
Canfora, Luciano (2012), Constantinos Simonides: Opere greche I, Bari.

============================

Then we have Kallinikos handwriting where TNC should give the url sources, but instead he likes to play games.

============================

And we have the entries in the Mount Athos catalogue we have been discussing, along with efforts to check with the monasteries on Mount Athos as to whether those materials are available.

============================

So where's the pictures (or lithography etc) of Kallinikos' handwriting in the Autographa?

Take a screenshot and post it as an attachment. ??

So where's the pictures (or lithography etc) of Kallinikos' handwriting in Simonides' Archeological University?

Take a screenshot of the Kallinikos handwriting in each and post it as an attachment (or attachments). ??

 

[Steven Avery]

So where's the pictures (or lithography etc) of Kallinikos' handwriting in the Autographa?
Take a screenshot and post it as an attachment. ??
So where's the pictures (or lithography etc) of Kallinikos' handwriting in Simonides' Archeological University?
Take a screenshot of the Kallinikos handwriting in each and post it as an attachment (or attachments). ??

Did I say I had access to any of those materials?

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

5am here.

I got a little time. But I'm away from my main computer.

There's plenty of examples of Simonides Greek handwriting on the internet.

There was a quote from the 1850s or 1860s from someone who highlighted some of the distinctive features of Simonides handwriting. That he wrote certain Greek letters like Alpha and Delta (those are the two I can remember, there was about four that he highlighted) in a distinctive way/style.

If you know the quote, or a similar one, please post it.

Back to Avery.

Did I say I had access to any of those materials?

Maybe in a round about way, maybe not.

Whatever the case, nothing you say can be trusted.

Your yes, simply does not mean yes, and your no, does not mean no. That much is true.

Malcolm Choat is a gentleman and a scholar. We were discussing today the forthcoming publication from the Forging Antiquities project, and some other stuff. (There are some letters that would be nice to be available pre-publication.)

It's just a matter of time before you end up eating those words. You'll end up insulting Malcolm Choat behind his back (if you haven't already somewhere on the internet) as you inevitably end up doing to "scholars" whom you view as "duped".

The fact that you're corresponding with him, means you're research begging...and undoubtedly being disingenuously friendly (at first) in order to extract what you want from him before you turn on him like the wolf in sheep's clothing you really are...

Head's up...we're going to nark on you. No threat, just truth...Yawn

 

[Steven Avery]

It's just a matter of time before you end up eating those words. You'll end up insulting Malcolm Choat behind his back (if you haven't already somewhere on the internet) as you inevitably end up doing to "scholars" whom you view as "duped".

You have switched to specializing in false prophecy.

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

There's an interesting point in this quote below.

I'll post it and bring it out later.

Robert Curzon, Traveller and Book Collector
By Meridel Holland, M.A, Ph. D.
Harvard University

The Bulletin of the John Rylands University, Library of Manchester, Vol. 65, No. 2, 1983.

Pages 138-139

"The collector J. E. Hodgkin, who had befriended Simonides late in life when he was "discredited and almost destitute" wrote to Curzon to ask the whereabouts of a certain monk [i.e. Kallinikos], and his opinion as to the validity of Simonides' claim. Curzon wrote back a letter full of good paleographical sense about the Codex Sinaiticus, and [Page 139] demonstrating the speed with which he was capable of assessing manuscripts:

"Sir: It is so long since I have been in the Levant that I have at present no means of ascertaining anything about the monk Kallinikos. H.M. Consul at Salonika would probably be able to inform you, whether that person really exists, and what position he may hold in Mt. Athos if he does exist. With respect to the Mt. Sinai manuscript, I should be quite satisfied as to its authenticity, if I was allowed to examine it, for ten minutes, or if Sir F. Madden, or any other competent person, was permitted to do so. It would be very difficult to carry out so voluminous a forgery, in the writing, the nature of the vellum, the way in which the leaves were set together, and other peculiarities of a very early manuscript, that I should doubt whether Mr. Simonides would be competent to take in a person really conversant in such matters. From my own experience I should imagine it would be hardly possible to deceive any one, who has studied the matter 0carefully. I am, Sir, Yours faithfully."

[Footnote Page 138]
14 Curzon, Armenia (London, 1854), p. 237.

[Footnote Page 138]
13 Quoted by Munby, Phillipps Studies: IV (Cambridge, 1956), p. 118.

[Footnote Page 138]
1 Ibid., p. 131.

https://www.escholar.manchester.ac....amId=POST-PEER-REVIEW-PUBLISHERS-DOCUMENT.PDF
​

 

[cjab]

This may or may not be of interest. (Downloadable doc contains sundry handwritten material in Greek, whose content I haven't read - at least one item signed by Simonides.)

Created 1853.
Contributor: "Kallinikos, Hieromonk of Thessalonica"

"Autographs of Doctor and Knight Constantine A. F. Simonidos Extracted from his letters and other documents and containing a variety of very important archaeological material / above and autograph issued under Kallinikos Hieromonk of Thessalonica with the permission of the author and Constantius I, former Patriarch of Constantinople Andri Sofolian and ever-adorned virtue and gratitude of the godly presumption of the pious are established under this editor and humble healer."

(NB: click on the Constantine Simonides link and you get three more Simonides publications.)

 

[cjab]

This blogspot of Michalis G. Pasiakos has an image of a letter purporting to be from "hieromonk Kallinikos" to Simonides:

 

[Steven Avery]

With respect to the Mt. Sinai manuscript, I should be quite satisfied as to its authenticity, if I was allowed to examine it, for ten minutes, or if Sir F. Madden, or any other competent person, was permitted to do so. It would be very difficult to carry out so voluminous a forgery, in the writing, the nature of the vellum, the way in which the leaves were set together, and other peculiarities of a very early manuscript, that I should doubt whether Mr. Simonides would be competent to take in a person really conversant in such matters. From my own experience I should imagine it would be hardly possible to deceive any one, who has studied the matter carefully.​

So Robert Curzon never had even 10 minutes of examination, yet he was jumping on the Tischendorf train.

Maybe others had the 10 minutes? With one of the two wildly differing sections.
Es sufficiente!

None dare call this science.

 

[cjab]

Maybe others had the 10 minutes?

That would be Henry Bradshaw and Samuel Tregelles, who both visited Tischendorf in Leipzig.


"...in 1862, by which time Tischendorf had persuaded the imperial authorities to let him take the Codex Sinaiticus to Leipzig for
the facsimile printing process, that Tregelles was able to travel to Germany to examine the MS." p.158 T. C. F. STUNT/Life of Tregelles.


“ On the 18th of July last (i.e. in 1862) I was at Leipzig with a
friend, and we called on Professor Tischendorf. Though
I had no introduction but my occupation at Cambridge,
nothing could exceed his kindness; we were with him
for more than two hours, and I had the satisfaction of
examining the manuscript after my own fashion. I had
been anxious to know whether it was written in even
continuous quaternions throughout, like the Codex Beza:,
or in a series of fasciculi each ending with a quire of
varying size, as the Codex Alexandrinus, and I found
the latter to be the case. This, by-the־by, is of itself
sufficient to prove that it cannot be the volume which
Dr Simonides speaks of having written at Mount Athos........
........For myself, I have no hesitation in saying that I am as absolutely certain of the genuineness and
antiquity of the Codex Sinaiticus as I am of my own existence." p.96,97 "A Memoir of Henry Bradshaw," 1888, G. W. PROTHERO

 

[TwoNoteableCorruptions]

This blogspot of Michalis G. Pasiakos has an image of a letter purporting to be from "hieromonk Kallinikos" to Simonides:

Very interesting.

This is exactly what this thread is for...

We'll done Cjab.

Screen shots and pictures like yours above, we need more of them (as many as you can find).

 

[cjab]

Very interesting.

This is exactly what this thread is for...

We'll done Cjab.

Screen shots and pictures like yours above, we need more of them (as many as you can find).

Interestingly, the bottom of the last page of the Autographs document I referred to above is reproduced at p.15 in Science Deceived - A Genius Fools Europe - Konstantinos Simonides so I guess it must be the authentic writing of Simonides (it also bears his signature).

Also, looking at the Kallinikos letter, and the handwriting in the Autographs document, it looks to me, after a cursory inspection, that the individual Greek letters bear identical shapes in each writing, although the Autographs document is more untidy and written with a different pen; and so I would easily believe that they were the same person's handwriting.