Daniel Dennett has passed

[Lastdaysbeliever]

There is an important difference between YouTube and Wikipedia. Anyone can put out a Youtube and say pretty much anything (within YouTube's general guidelines). But a Wikipedia article can be challenged and changed through a group process. There is are checks and balances within a Wikipedia article that is absent for a single YouTube video (although you can probably find another YouTube video saying the exact opposite thing for any given YouTube video).

I do trust wiki more than youtube and for me youtube is more for entertainment than a resource (based on the topic, do-it-yourself projects, Biblical sermons, etc.) but neither youtibe or wiki is infallible. I'm not arguing against wiki, but would you agree this repository of information is not always a reliable source? A yes or no would suffice because I am fully aware of your prior comments and links.

 

[Caroljeen]

I see that it's not clear at all what is dear from what I wrote. What is dear is the critical thinking and skepticism that led Hitchens and other atheists to be atheists. If his emotions overtook him on his deathbed and he converted, he'd be rejecting that critical thinking and skepticism that he had held dear throughout his life.

Couldn't it be possible that he might have had a deathbed encounter with the supernatural that caused him to change his mind?

 

[Gus Bovona]

I do trust wiki more than youtube and for me youtube is more for entertainment than a resource (based on the topic, do-it-yourself projects, Biblical sermons, etc.) but neither youtibe or wiki is infallible.

Agreed, but that says little, because even rigorously researched and peer-reviewed academic articles aren't infallible, either.

I'm not arguing against wiki, but would you agree this repository of information is not always a reliable source?

Agreed, but that says little, because nothing is always a reliable source.

A yes or no would suffice because I am fully aware of your prior comments and links.

 

[Gus Bovona]

Couldn't it be possible that he might have had a deathbed encounter with the supernatural that caused him to change his mind?

Hypothetically, sure, but, hypothetically, I could be the King of England, too.

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

Agreed, but that says little, because even rigorously researched and peer-reviewed academic articles aren't infallible, either.


Agreed, but that says little, because nothing is always a reliable source.

That was what I was trying to say all along. I think some want to make wiki out to be an always reliable resource, but common sense alone says that's not possible because it's man-made. But then this discussion doesn't comport your conclusion with where I stand on the Bible. No need to comment. I just wanted to be transparent on why I disagree, in part, with your conclusion.

Good talk!

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

The reason I replied to you was because the video was biased towards implying deathbed conversions and in Humes case that there is an afterlife.

About Hume it says "He cried out loud on his deathbed, he cried, "I am in flames", it is said his desperation was a horrible scene"

Here is a letter from the doctor that attended towards and at his death.



Found here.

Do you know what the source of the "I am in flames" quote is? It looks very much like it never happened.

This why I said to be careful of deathbed quotes.

So you accept this man's testimony, his witness, to what transpired at Humes death. His witness is unimpeachable. No worries. I pray, though, that everyone at the last moment of their life has a thief on the cross change of heart. But that said, how will we know. We normally don't, but then there are the times...

 

[Whatsisface]

So you accept this man's testimony, his witness, to what transpired at Humes death. His witness is unimpeachable. No worries. I pray, though, that everyone at the last moment of their life has a thief on the cross change of heart. But that said, how will we know. We normally don't, but then there are the times...

Do you think that Hume cried out as the video said? If so do you know the quote's source?

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

Do you think that Hume cried out as the video said? If so do you know the quote's source?

I presented the link as anecdotal. I don't take a position either way because irrespective of whether he did or didn't, that's between God and him.

 

[Whatsisface]

I presented the link as anecdotal. I don't take a position either way because irrespective of whether he did or didn't, that's between God and him.

Here's how you presented it ... "Famous atheists last words". You gave no qualification.

You obviously did no research into what the video was saying and blindly accepted what it was saying. From what you say above you don't seem to care whether what it's saying is the truth or not.

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

Here's how you presented it ... "Famous atheists last words".

That is the name of the video, if memory serves. What else would I call it...

You gave no qualification.

Again, it is anecdotal. Not a testament to what I think. I didn't figuratively raise my right hand and "swear that everything in the video is true, so help me".

You obviously did no research into what the video was saying and blindly accepted what it was saying. From what you say above you don't seem to care whether what it's saying is the truth or not.

You must not have been reading all my replies and truth is relative isn't it.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

LoL. Those who “consider” themselves Christians?

Yes. The 63% was a result of a survey in which Christians are asked if they are Christians. Were you stupidly thinking that whoever compiled those figures got a sneak peek at the Lamb's Book of Life?

You’re adorable.

Is it my long sultry eyelashes? At any rate, I'm not interested.

The vast majorly of those, as I put in my original reply to you, don’t even know what the criteria for being a real Christian is - and that includes actually believing in the reanimation of flesh. I don’t think they are any more bat-shit-crazy than a guy who thinks he can fix his own car just because he drives one every day but finds out he can’t when the parts are strewn across his driveway.

In other words you don't know what the hell you're talking about or how you derived the figures you pulled out your butt.

They are just clueless.

As are you, apparently.

......... ala C.S. Lewis claptrap that thinks you live, die, and are simply assigned heaven or hell immediately upon death based on the three Easter services they attended in the last 30 years.

I've read every Lewis book written, and never saw him express such a doctrine. Please cite book and page number. How does your boy Sam Harris define Christianity?

So you don’t understand how to actually calculate probabilities and statistics then.

OK, Girolamo Cardano, calculate the percentage of REAL Christians who are barbers so we can know how brave you are when you get a haircut.

 

[Whatsisface]

That is the name of the video, if memory serves. What else would I call it...

"Here's what I blindly believe some stranger on you tube say famous atheists said on their deathbeds".

Again, it is anecdotal. Not a testament to what I think. I didn't figuratively raise my right hand and "swear that everything in the video is true, so help me".

Did you watch the video? If you did, did you not question it?

If you didn't, please be aware that a certain part of Christianity has no qualms about being dishonest about these matters.

You must not have been reading all my replies and truth is relative isn't it.

No, truth is not relative, and the video has a lack of truth made up for with the opposite.

 

[Lastdaysbeliever]

"Here's what I blindly believe some stranger on you tube say famous atheists said on their deathbeds".

I didn't make the video. Why would I change the title...oh wait...for your comfort. Sorry.

Did you watch the video? If you did, did you not question it?

Yea I did and yes I did and I didn't take it as evidential commentary. Just a video that put up some claimed quotes and given this is the atheist forum and an OP about an atheist dying I thought, "this will be fun".

If you didn't, please be aware that a certain part of Christianity has no qualms about being dishonest about these matters.

What part is that?

No, truth is not relative, and the video has a lack of truth made up for with the opposite.

In a worldy sense, truth is relative. How many times have we heard "live your own truth and I'll live mine". Do I believe that? Absolutely not. There is only one truth. But in relation to youtube videos and wiki, truth is relative.

 

[Howie]

No, he's not dealing with any deity/s or any other mythological minions.

Simply back to nature.

Grow up already.

Notice no proof for the assertion is provided.

 

[5wize]

Yes. The 63% was a result of a survey in which Christians are asked if they are Christians.

Bwahahahahhaaaaahhhhaaaaaa

Lemme catch my breath... whew..... o.k., now:

Christianity isn't defined by subjective populist notions like proceed from the sphincter of C.S. Lewis. Christianity is defined by its dogmas and its creeds. The people that attest to the creeds, much less even know them, are less that 8% of the population. Those statistics come from Dr. Christian Smith - professor of Sociology at Notre Dame, David Olsen - The American Church Research Project, The Barna Group - Christian pollsters, Christine Walker - Religious Journalist.

... how you derived the figures ....

Now here’s how you do statistics, dumbass. You take that 8% and break them out by age group. Each age group will of course be an even smaller percentage of the whole. Then you apply the likelihood of a 65 year old Christian being either a barber or a pizza delivery boy. Your percentages are now shrinking - big time. Then you find out how many barbers or pizza boys there are out there. Then you apply that diminished Christian age category percentage to the whole of competing people in that age group for a specific job. Then you apply that cult size figure back to the entire population of that age group to gain an even smaller percentage of a possibility of running into such a pea-brain out in specific public situations.

Then you suddenly realize you are in a pea-brained size cult... especially given that you are a Universalist. Their numbers don’t even matter anymore. I think there were more people drinking kool-aid at Jonestown than there are Universalists. I think there may be about 5 or 6 more Universalists than there are Gnostics.

 

[5wize]

Never heard of 'em. Creeds, schmeeds!! Who cares?

... and that’s a wrap.....

 

[stiggy wiggy]

... and that’s a wrap.....

Yep. Now before exiting, pick up your marbles like a good boy.

 

[David1701]

I do trust wiki more than youtube and for me youtube is more for entertainment than a resource (based on the topic, do-it-yourself projects, Biblical sermons, etc.) but neither youtibe or wiki is infallible. I'm not arguing against wiki, but would you agree this repository of information is not always a reliable source? A yes or no would suffice because I am fully aware of your prior comments and links.

Wikipedia is extremely unreliable...

 

[Gus Bovona]

That was what I was trying to say all along. I think some want to make wiki out to be an always reliable resource, but common sense alone says that's not possible because it's man-made.

Agreed.

But then this discussion doesn't comport your conclusion with where I stand on the Bible. No need to comment. I just wanted to be transparent on why I disagree, in part, with your conclusion.

Good talk!

You too!

 

[5wize]

Yep. Now before exiting, pick up your marbles like a good boy.

Took yours too... cuz dems is da rules.