DEBATE: Is prayer to Mary & the saints worship?

[balshan]

Scripture doesn't say what A new day says that it does.

Oh yes it does and it used the word avoid. You claim to have read it how many times and you do not know that fact.

 

[dingoling.]

Both Jesus taught saved by faith and nothing else.
Both showed that righteousness comes (imputed) to us from Jesus and it His righteousness and not ours. Our works are not righteous to God.
They all taught the bread and wine was symbolic.
They taught that all scripture is authority and the word of God and it is not to added to, go beyond it or take away/ignore it.

Nope. Jesus and the apostles didn't teach any of those. Those teaching are from your own personal interpretation of scripture.

 

[dingoling.]

Oh yes it does and it used the word avoid. You claim to have read it how many times and you do not know that fact.

Yes, I do know for a fact that what A new day said scripture says isn't what scripture says. Thank you.

 

[balshan]

Nope. Jesus and the apostles didn't teach any of those. Those teaching are from your own personal interpretation of scripture.

Jesus and the apostles taught them all. It is only your interpretation of the false RCC interpretation of scripture that does not see it. I can do this all day long.

 

[balshan]

Yes, I do know for a fact that what A new day said scripture says isn't what scripture says. Thank you.

Thank you but your wrong once again and you sentence is just inane. I have never seen a new day say anything that scripture doesn't say. But you show in all your posts you do not understand scripture.

 

[Bonnie]

Neither Jesus or the Apostles taught:

- that we are saved by faith alone and not by works

Yes, they did and do. You refuse to see it.

- that we are imputed with the righteousness of Christ

God gives us His righteousness through faith in Jesus, as Paul writes. What does "gives" mean? What is imputed to us as righteousness, according to Rom. 4?

- that the bread and wine are symbolic

I have never stated that.

- that scripture alone is the final/sole authority for the Christian faith

Yep. "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the precepts of men." "Do not go beyond what it written." Which your church does IN SPADES

 

[dingoling.]

Yes, they did and do. You refuse to see it.


God gives us His righteousnwss through faith in Jesus. What dies "gives" mean? What is imputed to us as righteousness, accirding to Rom. 4?


I gave never said that.


Yep. "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the precepts of men." Which your church does IN SPADES

You don't have any authority to decide on these issues. There is no reason for us to accept what you are saying as being true.

 

[balshan]

You don't have any authority to decide on these issues. There is no reason for us to accept what you are saying as being true.

No one expects you to even think outside the RC box and its false authority, Bonnie clearly posts what is in scripture. Bonnie has never claimed authority but she is clearly led by the HS. The other thing that is certain is you have no authority

 

[1Thess521]

You don't have any authority to decide on these issues. There is no reason for us to accept what you are saying as being true.

I guess that is easier to keep stating rather than actually working through Scripture

 

[Bonnie]

You don't have any authority to decide on these issues. There is no reason for us to accept what you are saying as being true.

Did the Bereans have the authority to search the Scriptures for themselves and interpret them, to see if what Paul had taught them was the truth?

 

[Bonnie]

I guess that is easier to keep stating rather than actually working through Scripture.

Of course. It is much easier just to regurgitate what the RCC says about Scripture and what it means, than to take the time and effort to read it as through the eyes of a child, as if reading it for the first time, as if it truly had something to say to us. That also absolves them of any responsibility to understand Scripture for themselves. If they get it wrong, it is so much easier to blame their leadership, than their own spiritual laziness.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

For prayer to Mary and the saints to be actual "worship" you would have to prove that Catholics believe that Mary and the saints are actual gods. Can you do that? What can you cite as proof?

They become idols to those who pray to them.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Yes, so that she will intercede on our behalf before her Son.

John 14:13-17 NKJV
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. “ I guess you doubt the words of Jesus. Oh you of little faith.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

It is the official teachings of the Catholic church. That is what I want to see if the official teachings of the CC concerning our intercessory prayer to Mary. What does the CC actually teach?

This is a good reason why Bibles are not seen in Catholic churches.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Thanks for the advise. But we can do that and still be a Catholic though. We trust Jesus alone for our salvation.

Now if this was true we would not be having this conversation. You take mans word over Gods Word. The enemy of God has deceived you.

 

[Buzzard]

1Thess521 said:
I guess that is easier to keep stating rather than actually working through Scripture.

Bonnie said:
Of course. It is much easier just to regurgitate what the RCC says about Scripture and what it means, than to take the time and effort to read it as through the eyes of a child, as if reading it for the first time, as if it truly had something to say to us. That also absolves them of any responsibility to understand Scripture for themselves. If they get it wrong, it is so much easier to blame their leadership, than their own spiritual laziness.
-------------------------end Bonnie reply

there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
and the excuses will abound

 

[Bonnie]

Yes, so that she will intercede on our behalf before her Son.

That teaching is a lie perpetuated by the false teachers in your church. We need no intercessor in heaven between us and our dear Savior. Hasn't He told us to "come unto ME ALL you who labor and are heavy-laden....and I will give you rest for your souls."? Did He tell us we should go through His mom first?

He also said, in John 14:14, "Whatever you ask ME in MY name, that I will do." That is prayer. That is worship. That is going directly to Jesus, without going through His mom or some other saint, first.

DiLiguouri, in his wretched book The Glories of Mary, stated in one of the chapters--I think it was chapter 3--in a prayer to Mary, that Jesus' blood will not be efficacious to us, UNLESS she first recommends us to Jesus. I have posted this on here several times. I am curious--do you believe that?

 

[Bonnie]

I'm so glad you asked;

CCC 2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her...

The official teaching of the rcc is that you absolutely do pray TO her.

"My mother, upon thee I will establish the seat of my kingdom, for through thee will I bestow the graces that are asked of me: thou hast given me the human nature; I will give to thee, as it were, a divine nature, that is, my omnipotence, by which thou canst assist all who invoke thee to obtain their salvation."

Ligouri; The Glories of Mary pp 248

1. Mary is prayed TO
2. She has a divine nature...omnipotence i.e. all power, an attribute of deity

Now tell us Ligouri doesn't speak for rome. His piece of skubalon has been out for over 200 years, never censored never edited and still in print. Rome must be awfully proud and condoning of this work to keep it in print for so long.

This..."prayer" is absolutely gag-worthy! I mean, where is any of this even remotely hinted at, in Scripture? I wonder how many Catholics on here buy into this....garbage (skubalon)....

The ONLY thing diLiguori's book is good for, is to line the bottom of a bird cage!

 

[dingoling.]

I guess that is easier to keep stating rather than actually working through Scripture

I have already worked through scripture.

 

[dingoling.]

Did the Bereans have the authority to search the Scriptures for themselves and interpret them, to see if what Paul had taught them was the truth?

Do we have the authority to search the scriptures for ourselves and interpret them?