Dirty-Rag faith...

ReverendRV said:
I think the Narrative expects us to accept that these people believed in him because they believed his Miracles. The Doctrine of Signs and Wonders says that Miracles are meant to authenticate the person's message. So, is Christ's message to them that 'he was the King of Israel', or that 'he was the coming Messiah'? I don't think Jesus only preached he was the Son of David. I think Jesus mostly preached he was the Son of Man; would you agree?

I wonder why Jesus didn't entrust himself to believers. Why would he ever do that?
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Not all "believers" are really believers.

John 6:63-66 (WEB)
63 It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
64 But there are some of you who don’t believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who didn’t believe, and who it was who would betray him.
65 He said, “For this cause have I said to you that no one can come to me, unless it is given to him by my Father.”
66 At this, many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
David1701 said:
I have come across Provisionists who teach that; but I doubt if they all do.
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Fair enough; I shouldn't paint with a broad brush...

Would you agree that those who believed in Jesus, but he didn't entrust himself to them; that their belief was like a Filthy-Rag because their belief came from their own self righteousness?
 
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ReverendRV said:
I think the Narrative expects us to accept that these people believed in him because they believed his Miracles. The Doctrine of Signs and Wonders says that Miracles are meant to authenticate the person's message. So, is Christ's message to them that 'he was the King of Israel', or that 'he was the coming Messiah'? I don't think Jesus only preached he was the Son of David. I think Jesus mostly preached he was the Son of Man; would you agree?

I wonder why Jesus didn't entrust himself to believers. Why would he ever do that?
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Seems like you already answered.
 
ReverendRV said:
I think the Narrative expects us to accept that these people believed in him because they believed his Miracles. The Doctrine of Signs and Wonders says that Miracles are meant to authenticate the person's message. So, is Christ's message to them that 'he was the King of Israel', or that 'he was the coming Messiah'? I don't think Jesus only preached he was the Son of David. I think Jesus mostly preached he was the Son of Man; would you agree?
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Also the message was that Jesus was the Son of God;
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

I wonder why Jesus didn't entrust himself to believers. Why would he ever do that?
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A little confused here; what was Jesus expecting from believers to whom he entrusted himself?
 
ReverendRV said:
I think I can agree with this. But it is some sort of belief in the Truth that Jesus rejected, right?
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It's really nothing more that the "eat my flesh and drink my blood" tree-shaking that Jesus did in John 6 after the feeding of the 5000. This since He Knew that those following Him couldn't care less about his MESSAGE, but did appreciate the free lunch. (John 6:26).
 
ReverendRV said:
I think that Jesus would have expected their faith...
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Not sure about that.

"Expected their faith", as in; they can no longer have any faith. (That is theology)

I think He was more like, come follow me.

If you do not agree, then that is ok.

Anyway ..... that is the way I tend to interpret it.

Paul was more of a hardliner ......

No one can be.
 
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Slyzr said:
Not sure about that.

"Expected their faith", as in; they can no longer have any faith. (That is theology)

I think He was more like, come follow me.

If you do not agree, then that is ok.

Anyway ..... that is the way I tend to interpret it.

Paul was more of a hardliner ......

No one can be.
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I don't know if he did want them to follow him. Maybe if he had entrusted himself to them, then surely he would want them to follow him. Would you say that Jesus wanted people to follow him that he did not Trust? Especially those that he knew what was in them, that made him NOT want to Trust them?

Perhaps we could look at it like this; would Jesus want Satan to follow him? I haven't developed just what I think was in these people, that made him not want to entrust himself to them; but I think it would have been like Trusting the Devil to follow him...

Right?
 
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ReverendRV said:
I don't know if he did want them to follow him. Maybe if he entrusted himself to them, then surely he would want them to follow him. Would you say that Jesus wanted people to follow him that he did not Trust? Especially people that he knew what was in them?

Perhaps we could look at it like this; would Jesus want Satan to follow him? I haven't developed just what I think was in these people, that made him not want to entrust himself to them; but I think it would have been like Trusting the Devil to follow him...
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Maybe ........

But even Paul admits it goes back to the Jew's.

Salvation comes from the Jew's.

Sure they are so-post to repent, but they had it all along.
 
A little confused here; what was Jesus expecting from believers to whom he entrusted himself?
ReverendRV said:
I think that Jesus would have expected their faith...
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OK, I can follow that; I was thinking you meant Jesus was placing his life in the hands of those he trusted. ie, if I entrust myself to God, then I would be placing my life in God's hands.
 
Slyzr said:
Maybe ........

But even Paul admits it goes back to Jew's.

Salvation comes from the Jew's.

Sure they are so-post to repent, but they had it all along.
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That sounds good...

I'm about to have to go though; it's 5 o'Clock somewhere. When I get back, we can talk about what is was that was in the people that made Jesus not want to trust them...
 
PeanutGallery said:
A little confused here; what was Jesus expecting from believers to whom he entrusted himself?

OK, I can follow that; I was thinking you meant Jesus was placing his life in the hands of those he trusted. ie, if I entrust myself to God, then I would be placing my life in God's hands.
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You've known me for years here, you should know what I mean by now ;)
 
ReverendRV said:
Fair enough; I shouldn't paint with a broad brush...

Would you agree that those who believed in Jesus, but he didn't entrust himself to them; that their belief was like a Filthy-Rag because their belief came from their own self righteousness?
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Yes, I think it's possible to say that.
 
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