Faith precedes life

F

fltom

Well-known member
John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

John 5:24 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

John 5:40 (ESV) — 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 6:51 (ESV) — 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:53 (ESV) — 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

John 20:31 (ESV) — 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
 
Reformedguy said:
Says that where exactly?
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you can see it here

Ephesians 2:1–12 (UASV) — 1 And you being dead in the trespasses and your sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no man may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore, remember that at one time you, people of the nations by fleshly descent, were the ones called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision,” which is made in the flesh by human hands, 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
 
fltom said:
you can see it here

Ephesians 2:1–12 (UASV) — 1 And you being dead in the trespasses and your sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no man may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore, remember that at one time you, people of the nations by fleshly descent, were the ones called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision,” which is made in the flesh by human hands, 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
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See also the parable of the prodigal son

Luke 15:17–24 (ESV) — 17 “But when he came to himself, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have more than enough bread, but I perish here with hunger! 18 I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me as one of your hired servants.” ’ 20 And he arose and came to his father. But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion, and ran and embraced him and kissed him. 21 And the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ 22 But the father said to his servants, ‘Bring quickly the best robe, and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet. 23 And bring the fattened calf and kill it, and let us eat and celebrate. 24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.’ And they began to celebrate.
 
fltom said:
you can see it here

Ephesians 2:1–12 (UASV) — 1 And you being dead in the trespasses and your sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no man may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore, remember that at one time you, people of the nations by fleshly descent, were the ones called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision,” which is made in the flesh by human hands, 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
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Thank you. That is correct -- separated by spiritual death.
 
fltom said:
you can see it here

Ephesians 2:1–12 (UASV) — 1 And you being dead in the trespasses and your sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among whom also we all formerly lived in the desires of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come he might show the surpassing riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of your own doing, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no man may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. 11 Therefore, remember that at one time you, people of the nations by fleshly descent, were the ones called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision,” which is made in the flesh by human hands, 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
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Sorry, the text does not define dead means separation due to rebellion. More question begging
 
Howie said:
Where's your proof it's a metaphor?
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- Faith precedes life

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 5:24 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into...
forums.carm.org
 
fltom said:

- Faith precedes life

John 3:36 (ESV) — 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 5:24 (ESV) — 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into...
forums.carm.org
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I ask again, where is your proof it's a metaphor. Please, no more of your opinions, I want proof.
 
Howie said:
I ask again, where is your proof it's a metaphor. Please, no more of your opinions, I want proof.
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you got it deal with it

Ephesians 2:1–10 (ESV) — 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

those termed dead were separate from christ

the fact that the prodigal son and not Lazarus are used to illustrate soteriology is another proof

the fact that the unredeemed are often termed sick is also proof dead is a metaphor.
 
fltom said:
you got it deal with it

Ephesians 2:1–10 (ESV) — 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

those termed dead were separate from christ

the fact that the prodigal son and not Lazarus are used to illustrate soteriology is another proof

the fact that the unredeemed are often termed sick is also proof dead is a metaphor.
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I'm not interested in your opinions.
 
Howie said:
I'm not interested in your opinions.
Click to expand...
You are not interested in proof or truth

you got it deal with it

Ephesians 2:1–10 (ESV) — 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

those termed dead were separate from christ

the fact that the prodigal son and not Lazarus are used to illustrate soteriology is another proof

the fact that the unredeemed are often termed sick is also proof dead is a metaphor.

which is why you do not deal with the argument
 
fltom said:
You are not interested in proof or truth

you got it deal with it

Ephesians 2:1–10 (ESV) — 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

those termed dead were separate from christ

the fact that the prodigal son and not Lazarus are used to illustrate soteriology is another proof

the fact that the unredeemed are often termed sick is also proof dead is a metaphor.

which is why you do not deal with the argument
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Don't change my words

It's your opinions I'm interested in, Tom. I asked for biblical proof; you have none.
 
Howie said:
Don't change my words

It's your opinions I'm interested in, Tom. I asked for biblical proof; you have none.
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I gave you three different biblical proofs and you addressed none

fltom said:
You are not interested in proof or truth

you got it deal with it

1) Ephesians 2:1–10 (ESV) — 1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:11–12 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

those termed dead were separate from christ
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fltom said:
2) the fact that the prodigal son and not Lazarus are used to illustrate soteriology is another proof

3)the fact that the unredeemed are often termed sick is also proof dead is a metaphor.
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