First Baptist Church of Jacksonville draws a line in the sand

BMS said:
Your problem is whilst you think paedophilia is wrong
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No, I don't.
I think acting on it is wrong, but paedophilia is a state of mind, not an action.
BMS said:
and God does.
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I don't care what (you think) he thinks is wrong, because what (you think) he thinks is wrong is not based on the idea of unjustified harm.

"It is wrong because it disobeys me" is how tyrants think.
BMS said:
He also created free will.
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If your god didn't want people to be gay, he should have made them unable to be gay the way he made us unable to fly or breathe under water.
Also, if homosexuality is not a choice, then free will is irrelevant.
BMS said:
But as glenlogie has said
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Wouldn't know - on Ignore.
 
Eightcrackers said:
No, I don't.
I think acting on it is wrong, but paedophilia is a state of mind, not an action.

I don't care what (you think) he thinks is wrong, because what (you think) he thinks is wrong is not based on the idea of unjustified harm.

"It is wrong because it disobeys me" is how tyrants think.

If your god didn't want people to be gay, he should have made them unable to be gay the way he made us unable to fly or breathe under water.
Also, if homosexuality is not a choice, then free will is irrelevant.

Wouldn't know - on Ignore.
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Well if acting in it is wrong then IT must be wrong, surely?
God didnt want people.to steal, lie, be greedy or selfish either but He gave free choice.
 
So we see how this is the litmus test.
People are seemimgly happier to compromise on sexual aspects of God's purposes than others.
 
BMS said:
Well if acting in it is wrong then IT must be wrong, surely?
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No.
Only actions are wrong, not thoughts.
BMS said:
God didnt want people.to steal, lie, be greedy or selfish either but He gave free choice.
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Under your paradigm, he made me without the urge to have children - is my free will violated?

If not, why would it have been violated if he had made me without the urge to steal?
 
Eightcrackers said:
Yes.

No.
You can have a thought about doing a morally wrong thing, but the thought itself harms nobody, so it is not immoral.
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It's not true that having evil thoughts and desires "harm nobody". They harm yourself.

You should look into neuroplasticity and how our thoughts and desires actually shape our brains. Negative thoughts create neural pathways that lead to more negative thoughts and desires, and leads to negative dispositions. That's harmful for people. And by extension, is harmful to those around you because they have to deal with your negativity. (not YOURS personally, but people who have negative thoughts and dispositions)

Similarly, positive thoughts create neural pathways that lead to more positive thoughts and desires, and leads to positive dispositions. That makes people happier and healthier.

This isn't voodoo or mysticism. It's science. We know so much more about how brains are wired than we ever have, and this is how it works.

Evil thoughts actually bring you harm. If you don't act on them it may not harm others, but it harms you.
 
Crazy Ivan said:
It's not true that having evil thoughts and desires "harm nobody". They harm yourself.
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Nothing done purely to the self, is immoral.

A thing must cause unjustified harm to others in order to be immoral.
Crazy Ivan said:
Negative thoughts create neural pathways that lead to more negative thoughts and desires
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If a thing is not immoral, more of them doesn't make them immoral.
Crazy Ivan said:
and leads to negative dispositions.
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A disposition is not an action.
Crazy Ivan said:
And by extension, is harmful to those around you because they have to deal with your negativity.
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So, being a pessimist is immoral because others have to deal with it?
Sorry - this is silly.
Crazy Ivan said:
Evil thoughts actually bring you harm. If you don't act on them it may not harm others, but it harms you.
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As I said, the harm must be

1. unjustified, and
2. to others

in order for it to be immoral.
 
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I don’t agree with that at all.

Moreover, other people ARE negatively impacted by people with sour, negative dispositions. So some harm IS being done to others.

If you think that’s silly, try living with someone who is a total negative sourpuss. It can be miserable. Only a total narcissist would think that they can actually live in their own little bubble and think the don’t impact others around them.
 
Eightcrackers said:
No.
Only actions are wrong, not thoughts.

Under your paradigm, he made me without the urge to have children - is my free will violated?

If not, why would it have been violated if he had made me without the urge to steal?
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So why would acting on something that isnt wrong, be wrong?
 
Crazy Ivan said:
I don’t agree with that at all.

Moreover, other people ARE negatively impacted by people with sour, negative dispositions. So some harm IS being done to others.

If you think that’s silly, try living with someone who is a total negative sourpuss. It can be miserable. Only a total narcissist would think that they can actually live in their own little bubble and think the don’t impact others around them.
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I should refine my definition: in order for a thing to be wrong, it must be done with the intent of causing (or allowing, where it is preventable) unjustified harm to others.

Pessimism is not adopted with the intent of affecting others negatively.
 
Eightcrackers said:
I should refine my definition: in order for a thing to be wrong, it must be done with the intent of causing (or allowing, where it is preventable) unjustified harm to others.

Pessimism is not adopted with the intent of affecting others negatively.
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The poster (who has me on ignore). Is unaware that people can be held liable for results for harm done even if they do not intend to harm.
 
vibise said:
What did Jesus teach about LGBTQ people. While he praised heterosexual marriage, he never condemned or even criticized homosexuality.
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Did Jesus tell you to preach LGBTQ debauchery?

man and woman marriage was the purpose of Creation according to Jesus.

God warned us about you.

male and female created He them, and blessed them
 
Eightcrackers said:
I should refine my definition: in order for a thing to be wrong, it must be done with the intent of causing (or allowing, where it is preventable) unjustified harm to others.

Pessimism is not adopted with the intent of affecting others negatively.
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So unintentional bigotry isn't wrong? As in, I *think* I'm being kind to a trans person by denying them "gender affirming" care. I *think* I'm doing it *with their best interest at heart*, but in the end, it harms them greatly. Such an act isn't immoral?
 
Crazy Ivan said:
So unintentional bigotry isn't wrong? As in, I *think* I'm being kind to a trans person by denying them "gender affirming" care. I *think* I'm doing it *with their best interest at heart*, but in the end, it harms them greatly. Such an act isn't immoral?
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I would say morality is kind of a nonsense concept caught up in magic. Ethics is a better term.

To be unethical typically means to act with malicious intent, but it is an entire discipline of philosophy and really complicated.
 
Backup said:
I would say morality is kind of a nonsense concept caught up in magic. Ethics is a better term.

To be unethical typically means to act with malicious intent, but it is an entire discipline of philosophy and really complicated.
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Do you think we should ban actions that aren't unethical?
 
BMS said:
So we see how this is the litmus test.
People are seemimgly happier to compromise on sexual aspects of God's purposes than others.
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Christ said not to wash your hands before you eat, give all your stuff away, and castrate yourself.

You compromise on all that and fixate on other people’s sexuality, which He didn’t seem to care much about.
 
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