First Christian witnessing in the book of Acts

[Lilel01]

What did Christians preach about Jesus and about God after they were anointed at Pentecost in 33 AD?

We have many examples of their public speeches and defense of the truth in the book of Acts of the Apostles, just the one that follows the gospels in our modern Bibles. Let's read from those apostolic and Pauline public talks, and learn the Christian truth that was taught for more than 70 years after Jesus' ascension into heaven.

 

[Lilel01]

Pentecost was being celebrated in Jerusalem in AD 33. The disciples had received an anointing of holy spirit directly from heaven. For the first time with an audience of that magnitude on such a special occasion and with the advantage of being able to be understood in the languages of all the foreigners who were listening, Peter gave his first public discourse that is recorded in the Scriptures. Have you read that first speech by Peter right after they received the holy spirit and the commission to preach the good news to the world?

Acts 1:4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; 5 for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.”
6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

That discourse of Peter is in Acts 2:14-36. Read it, and then let's talk about the things Peter said under the influence of the holy spirit. Discuss the detail: Did Peter say something to indicate that Jesus was God?

 

[johnny guitar]

Pentecost was being celebrated in Jerusalem in AD 33. The disciples had received an anointing of holy spirit directly from heaven. For the first time with an audience of that magnitude on such a special occasion and with the advantage of being able to be understood in the languages of all the foreigners who were listening, Peter gave his first public discourse that is recorded in the Scriptures. Have you read that first speech by Peter right after they received the holy spirit and the commission to preach the good news to the world?

Acts 1:4 While he was meeting with them, he ordered them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which you heard from me; 5 for John, indeed, baptized with water, but you will be baptized with holy spirit not many days after this.”
6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

That discourse of Peter is in Acts 2:14-36. Read it, and then let's talk about the things Peter said under the influence of the holy spirit. Discuss the detail: Did Peter say something to indicate that Jesus was God?

Yep! He said Jesus poured out The Holy Spirit, something ONLY God can do.

 

[Fred]

That discourse of Peter is in Acts 2:14-36. Read it, and then let's talk about the things Peter said under the influence of the holy spirit. Discuss the detail: Did Peter say something to indicate that Jesus was God?

Yes, Peter did say something in affirmation that Jesus is God. Peter applied "Lord" (kyrios) unto the Lord Jesus from an Old Testament text about YHWH (Acts 2:21; cf. Joel 3:5, LXX).

  - YHWH the LORD !

John 1-14 speaks of Jesus. So your beliefs are wrong. You don't know my beliefs, for I have never said that John 1:14 doesn't speak of Jesus. Indeed I have argued consistently that it does. So what does this allegation make you? :devilish:

forums.carm.org

Furthermore, Acts 2:21 also teaches the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer - and prayer is due only unto God.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/paul-applies-yhwh-from-joel-3-5-lxx-unto-the-lord-jesus-in-romans-10-13.7415/

 

[guest1]

What did Christians preach about Jesus and about God after they were anointed at Pentecost in 33 AD?

We have many examples of their public speeches and defense of the truth in the book of Acts of the Apostles, just the one that follows the gospels in our modern Bibles. Let's read from those apostolic and Pauline public talks, and learn the Christian truth that was taught for more than 70 years after Jesus' ascension into heaven.

We can see that there is only One Savior who is Lord from both the Old and New Testaments. Now there is a particular poster who claims the book of Acts never refers to Jesus as God. We will see that the word Lord in many places is used in the book of Acts as an equivalent to God.


Isa 43:11
11"I, even I, am the Lord,
And there is no savior besides Me.

Isa 45:21-23
Is it not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
22"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;
For I am God, and there is no other.
23"I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Below we see in fact it is the name of Jesus alone by which men must be saved. There is no other name which can save a man.


Acts 4:12
12"And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Here we see Stephen pray to Jesus as he was being stoned which would be forbidden if He were not God. We also see that Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit when he was praying to Jesus.


Acts 7:59-60
59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

Jesus is Lord(YHWH) of all with no exceptions


Acts 10:36
"The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)

Acts 14:3
3 Therefore they spent a long time there speaking boldly with reliance upon the Lord, who was testifying to the word of His grace, granting that signs and wonders be done by their hands.

We see below that it was the name of Jesus whom they proclaimed as Lord. It was Jesus who was preached to the gentiles.

Acts 15:15-18
15 "With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return,
AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN,
AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS,
AND I WILL RESTORE IT,
17SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD,
AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'
18SAYS THE LORD, WHO MAKES THESE THINGS KNOWN FROM LONG AGO.


Acts 15:23-26
"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.
24"Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The phrase the word of God is synonymous with the word of the Lord(Jesus,YHWH)

Acts 15:35
But Paul and Barnabas stayed in Antioch, teaching and preaching with many others also, the word of the Lord.

Again it is the Lord Jesus who was prayed to and who answers prayers.


Acts 16:14-15
14A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. 15And when she and her household had been baptized, she urged us, saying, "If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay." And she prevailed upon us.

Below we see to believe in the Lord(Jesus) is the same as believing in God. In fact we see that they first believed in the Lord Jesus and later referred to that as believing in God therefore calling the Lord Jesus God !!


Acts 16:31-34
31They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." 32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household. 34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

So we can see that Jesus was preached in the book of Acts as the only One who can save men from their sins. We see He is indeed the Savior. We see He was prayed to under the power of the Holy Spirit and that Jesus answered prayer. They also called the word of God the word of the Lord making Jesus equal with God. We also see that those who believed in the Lord Jesus actually believed in God, therefor calling Jesus God.



We also see the Peter in fact calls Jesus YHWH when he refers to Joel below. When Peter calls Jesus Lord it is the same as calling Him YHWH,


Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Acts 2:21
1 'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.'

Acts 2:34-36
4 "For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says:

'THE LORD SAID TO MY LORD,
"SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
35 UNTIL I MAKE YOUR ENEMIES A FOOTSTOOL FOR YOUR FEET."'

36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified."

Acts 4:10-12
0 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead — by this name this man stands here before you in good health. 11 "He is the STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED by you, THE BUILDERS, but WHICH BECAME THE CHIEF CORNER stone. 12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

It is the same Lord YHWH whom Stephen prayed to as he was dying for his faith in the Lord Jesus who saved him. To deny this is to turn a blind eye to the scriptures. We know from scripture that only God can save(Is 43:11) but we see in Acts that the Lord Jesus saved men from their sin. Had God not become man He could not of died for our sins. Had Jesus not been God He could not save us from sin.

Acts 7:59-60
59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60 Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.

Jesus,Savior,Lord and God were interchangeable names for the one true God in Acts and the Epistles.



And of course we have YHWH who will be pierced, and He will pour out His Spirit. We know from the NT it was Jesus who would send the Helper,Comforter, Holy Spirit to His disciples and who was pierced.

Zech 12:10-11
10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

Acts 2:36-40
36 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified."
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?" 38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

Acts 3:17-20
"And now, brethren, I know that you acted in ignorance, just as your rulers did also. 18 "But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 "Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord;

hope this helps !!!

conclusion: Jesus is the Lord, God, Savior in Acts

 

[Our Lord's God]

What did Christians preach about Jesus and about God after they were anointed at Pentecost in 33 AD?

We have many examples of their public speeches and defense of the truth in the book of Acts of the Apostles, just the one that follows the gospels in our modern Bibles. Let's read from those apostolic and Pauline public talks, and learn the Christian truth that was taught for more than 70 years after Jesus' ascension into heaven.

22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed to everything he says to you. 23 And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 For you first, God raised up His servant and sent him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

A very strange way to speak if you believed God came down from heaven.

 

[Tanachreader]

22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed to everything he says to you. 23 And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 For you first, God raised up His servant and sent him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

A very strange way to speak if you believed God came down from heaven.

Came down from Heaven and Became a man, a Hebrew.

 

[johnny guitar]

22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed to everything he says to you. 23 And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 For you first, God raised up His servant and sent him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

A very strange way to speak if you believed God came down from heaven.

He that comes from above is above ALL; He that comes from heaven is above ALL.
John 3:31. Yep. Jesus is God.

 

[Stephen]

In the spirit of the thread, let's read Acts 17 Paul speaking to gentiles with an extensive description of the god he preached about, and he did so to an audience all too familiar with gods becoming men and having multiple gods.

16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)​

They seem to think Paul is speaking of strange gods, does Paul speak of Christ as a god or of a multi-personal god?

Let's find out by reading on.

22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.​

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’​

Paul proclaims this god as a single person 8 times. That would be 8 direct contradictions of the doctrine of the trinity when this god is introduced to the Athenians.

But let's go on, perhaps this god's son is another god.

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”​

Paul describes all of us as this god's offspring. And he introduces the judge to be a man, not another god, or a godman, or any form of deity. He also reaffirms that this god is a single person 5 more times (that would be 5 more direct contradictions to the doctrine of the trinity).

But let's read on to see if this god is a multi-personal god, or if this son is a godman.

32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others.​

What were they interested in? The resurrection from the dead. Everything Paul taught them was straightforward, and they understood it. He didn't expound on the son being anything more than a man, or on this god being more than one person. Almost as if the trinity was non-existent or completely unimportant.

What Paul did do, was consistently describe this god as a single person (contradicting the trinity) and he described this god's son as a man. Perhaps we should worship the god Paul describes.

 

[Fred]

22 Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to him you shall give heed to everything he says to you. 23 And it will be that every soul that does not heed that prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ 24 And likewise, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and his successors onward, also announced these days. 25 It is you who are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant which God made with your fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ 26 For you first, God raised up His servant and sent him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways.”

A very strange way to speak if you believed God came down from heaven.

Acts 7:37
This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ (ESV)

The Lord Jesus being a "prophet" (Acts 7:37; cf. Acts 3:22) corresponds with Him being the "Lord" to whom Stephen addressed his prayers to in Acts 7:59-60. Since only God is the proper recipient of prayer proves the Lord Jesus is God.

 

[Stephen]

Acts 7:37
This is the Moses who said to the Israelites, ‘God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brothers.’ (ESV)

The Lord Jesus being a "prophet" (Acts 7:37; cf. Acts 3:22) corresponds with Him being the "Lord" to whom Stephen addressed his prayers to in Acts 7:59-60. Since only God is the proper recipient of prayer proves the Lord Jesus is God.

Stephen wasn't "praying", he was speaking. The word you fantasize means "praying" means actually means "speaking" (link). Jesus was right there in front of him, Stephen didn't need to 'pray". Luke uses the same word in Acts 7:59 to describe Jesus speaking to Paul.

Acts 22:17 “When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance 18 and saw the Lord speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ he said. ‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about me.’​

By your Rube Goldberg logic, you've turned Paul into Jesus Christ's God.

 

[Fred]

Stephen wasn't "praying", he was speaking.

The words of the Bible are properly defined one way, but your heresy teaches the opposite.

When people pray, they speak - either audibly or silently within their heart.

1. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Jesus is the addressee when epikaleō is used in the sense of praying (Acts 7:59) (Call, page 93).

2. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Prayer is properly addressed to God the Father, Matt. 6:6; John 16:23; Eph. 1:17; 3:14, and the Son, Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 12:8 (Prayer, page 872).

3. A Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament: To call upon, invoke, in prayer. Rom. 10:12, 14. 2 Tim. 2:22. Acts 7:59 (epikaleō, page 243)



You have no proof that Jesus was "right there in front of Stephen." Remember, the vision took place in the city, while the prayer took place after he was "cast out of the city" (Acts 7:58).

Finally, since you are a Christadelphian, you should be interested in what this Christadelphian web site has to say (the boldface is mine):
He prayed to Jesus saying, “Lord Jesus receive my spirit” and, “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.” The Lord Jesus answered beyond anything Stephen could have imagined: he selected the possible ringleader of Stephen’s murderers as a ‘chosen vessel to bring his name before the Gentiles.’

COMMENT: Speaking to Jesus Christ - Tidings

A remarkable feature of our Lord’s ministry was that he taught ‘as one who had authority’ (Matt. 21:23). The authority of the Lord Jesus over his disciples was absolute. He told them that without him…

tidings.org

Thanks for making that easy for me to refute your false teaching.

 

[Stephen]

The words of the Bible are properly defined one way, but your heresy teaches the opposite.

When people pray, they speak - either audibly or silently within their heart.

Yep. Just like Jesus did to Paul, and Stephen did to Jesus.

1. Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Jesus is the addressee when epikaleō is used in the sense of praying (Acts 7:59) (Call, page 93).

2. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words: Prayer is properly addressed to God the Father, Matt. 6:6; John 16:23; Eph. 1:17; 3:14, and the Son, Acts 7:59; 2 Cor. 12:8 (Prayer, page 872).

3. A Greek and English Lexicon to the New Testament: To call upon, invoke, in prayer. Rom. 10:12, 14. 2 Tim. 2:22. Acts 7:59 (epikaleō, page 243)

So when the same word is used towards Peter in Acts 11:13, it means Peter is God? (link)

11 “Right then three men who had been sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying. 12 The Spirit told me to have no hesitation about going with them. These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the man’s house. 13 He told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.’​

Your logical Rube Goldberg machine is quite the invention. It doesn't make any sense, but you must insist upon it or your doctrinal house of cards falls to pieces.

You have no proof that Jesus was "right there in front of Stephen." Remember, the vision took place in the city, while the prayer took place after he was "cast out of the city" (Acts 7:58).

Let's see,

54 When the members of the Sanhedrin heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 “Look,” he said, “I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”​

Stephen is speaking to a person he sees. No "prayer" as you fantasize it to mean is required. Stephen had direct access to Jesus. And as a side note, the whole interaction is in direct contradiction to the doctrine of the trinity, Jesus is standing at the right hand of God, making it absolutely clear that Jesus is not God, and God is not Jesus.

Finally, since you are a Christadelphian, you should be interested in what this Christadelphian web site has to say (the boldface is mine):
He prayed to Jesus saying, “Lord Jesus receive my spirit” and, “Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.” The Lord Jesus answered beyond anything Stephen could have imagined: he selected the possible ringleader of Stephen’s murderers as a ‘chosen vessel to bring his name before the Gentiles.’

COMMENT: Speaking to Jesus Christ - Tidings

A remarkable feature of our Lord’s ministry was that he taught ‘as one who had authority’ (Matt. 21:23). The authority of the Lord Jesus over his disciples was absolute. He told them that without him…

tidings.org

You seem to have fantasized this rule that Jesus must be God because he hears our prayers and somehow people are wrong for not embracing your fantasy. In direct contradiction to your fantasy, the bible declares that Jesus is the man next to God (Acts 7:55) in the most holy place where our prayers ascend, Jesus is the man in charge of all that God has made (Hebrews 2:7) and Jesus is the man who mediates between God and men (1 Tim 2:5). Of course he hears our prayers, he's the man who mediates the covenant.

You made up this fantasy that God is so feeble that he can't empower a man to hear our prayers, and somehow think that your fantasy about God's feebleness is equivalent to scripture. In contrast to your fantasy, scripture says that Jesus is the man whom God empowered to rule over the works of his hand, and the man whom God appointed to mediate the covenant. He is the man whom God has made lord.

 

[Fred]

So when the same word is used towards Peter in Acts 11:13, it means Peter is God? (link)

How pathetic.

Just because it is the same word that doesn't necessitate it means the same thing elsewhere.

No "prayer" as you fantasize it to mean is required.

You are free to play make believe with how the words of the Bible are properly defined. Even the Christadelphian web site I supplied a link for affirms Stephen is praying to Jesus.

Thanks again for making this easy for me.

 

[Our Lord's God]

How pathetic.

Just because it is the same word that doesn't necessitate it means the same thing elsewhere.

You don't seem to notice that your "same word" argument is one of your own routine arguments.

 

[Fred]

You don't seem to notice that your "same word" argument is one of your own routine arguments.

...that has never been refuted.

God will honor those who honor Him (1 Samuel 2:30). Honoring God entails worshiping God, but that doesn't mean God honors us by Him worshiping us.

Get a serious clue!

 

[Stephen]

How pathetic.

Just because it is the same word that doesn't necessitate it means the same thing elsewhere.

I see, Your argument is: When it is used towards Jesus, it mean he is God, but when it is used towards others, it doesn't mean they are God.
Therefore you conclude that Jesus is God.


I suppose this is par for the trinitarian course for logical argumentation.

Step 1: Make a circular argument from a passage that Jesus is God.
Step 2: Ignore the eyewitness statements in that same passage that Jesus is standing next to God.
Step 3: Conclude Jesus is the person he is standing next to.

 

[Fred]

I see, Your argument is: When it is used towards Jesus, it mean he is God, but when it is used towards others, it doesn't mean they are God.
Therefore you conclude that Jesus is God.

When to call upon the name of the Lord is used in the Bible it always refers to God.

 

[Stephen]

When to call upon the name of the Lord is used in the Bible it always refers to God.

I agree that you believe that. And likewise we both agree that your belief is that Jesus is the very same person he is standing next to in Acts 7:54-60. Your doctrine requires you to accept such absurdities. It is an interesting logical contraption you have erected, you've made up these rules and expect God to submit to these rules.


On the other hand, I believe God has the power to assign a man to be the ruler of all that he has made (see Psalm 8), and that he did assign a man, Jesus, to that task (Hebrews 2).

 

[Fred]

I agree that you believe that.

The words of the Bible when properly defined agree with what I am asserting.