Have you heard of the Burning of the Bosom?

[Janice Bower]

dberrie said---My question was--what does one find in the Book of Mormon which isn't found in the Biblical NT--as far as salvational doctrines go.

If one can't find any differences--then it would certainly weaken the argument the Book of Mormon is an unChristian book,



Says the woman who didn't list one thing the Book of Mormon contains--which isn't found in the Biblical text--as far as salvational doctrines go.

Surely--if the Book of Mormon is as unChristian as is claimed here by our critics--then one would not have any difficulty in listing a page of differences.

Silence. Not one entry. That has to make a statement of some sort, IMO.

Just because I don't answer all your questions when you desire those responses doesn't warrant snide remarks.

Tell me, are members in the church of the devil going to the celestial kingdom? In Mormonism only children of God who were adopted by your second god(the LDS Christ) who earn that blessing of full salvation will be with your 2 highest gods. In Mormonism, the only church that pleases your god is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

 

[DaGeo]

dberrie said---My question was--what does one find in the Book of Mormon which isn't found in the Biblical NT--as far as salvational doctrines go.

If one can't find any differences--then it would certainly weaken the argument the Book of Mormon is an unChristian book,



Says the woman who didn't list one thing the Book of Mormon contains--which isn't found in the Biblical text--as far as salvational doctrines go.

Surely--if the Book of Mormon is as unChristian as is claimed here by our critics--then one would not have any difficulty in listing a page of differences.

Silence. Not one entry. That has to make a statement of some sort, IMO.

Are you new here or something

 

[Janice Bower]

So, this obvious error, that even a Mormon could identify and that virtually everyone knew to be an error, is being compared to Mormonism’s ORIGINAL and EGREGIOUS contradictions and errors in the original FIRST COPY written by Mormon. But Mormon is not only a proven false prophet but a false historian as well

Because "Mormon" was a fictional character created by Joseph Smith, I would change that to say:


So, this obvious error, that even a Mormon could identify and that virtually everyone knew to be an error, is being compared to Mormonism’s ORIGINAL and EGREGIOUS contradictions and errors in the original FIRST COPY written by Joseph Smith. But Joseph Smith== is not only a proven false prophet but a false historian as well

 

[Bonnie]

Just what I thought. Another belief held together by a psychic variety of witch doctor type of false miracles and a contrived “burning of the bosom” distinction. Wow, what an apologetic that is

So many false Christianities and false religions all around the world boast about their “miracles” but they show nothing even approximating the real miracles performed by real prophets, Jesus or the apostles did through the power of God.

Not only that, but there continues to be no accounting for the more than 4000 changes to the Mormon “word of God”. All you have are obvious attempts to cover up for all the glaring inconsistencies within the Book of Mormon. These changes prove your god is no more than a mishap invention of Joesph Smith or at best, a make believe stooge.

And we’re just starting out

Wanna hear more

There is a cure for the "burning in the bosom." It's called "Tums."

 

[Janice Bower]

Are you new here or something

dberrie2020 is a Mormon who has been here for years.

 

[Janice Bower]

I always thought this was rather curious:

11. Translation of words and the printing accident that caused a 17th century printer to print the mistake: “Thou Shalt Commit Adultery”​

A primary motivation for the translators preparing the King James Version of the bible was readability by their fellow English citizenry, as well as the flowing sweep of the language when passages of the bible were read aloud from the pulpit. Spelling and punctuation were often changed, however, by the printers, who altered the spellings of words or omitted punctuation marks in order to maintain the integrity of the columns in which the volume was printed. The first released edition in 1611 had been carefully set in type, later editions found printers who were less concerned with what would one day be called quality control, and punctuation, capitalization, and even the omission of words and phrases became commonplace.

In one instance, in 1631, printers Robert Barker and Martin Lucas, who had printed the first edition of the Authorized Bible (KJV), made a printing error which cost them their license as the Royal Printer and a fine equivalent to approximately $75,000 today. In Exodus 20:14 they omitted the word not and printed “Thou shalt commit adultery”. An outraged King ordered all copies of the misprinted book be seized and burned and possession of the bible became a crime, but a few copies survived into the 21st century. While not all misprints and similar errors were as obvious, the incident illustrates how the simple misplacement of a single word can change the meaning completely.

They must have been ancestors of mine. I have to proof read my posts to make sure I typed the word "not."

 

[DaGeo]

dberrie2020 is a Mormon who has been here for years.

Why is she so unaware of her Mormon beliefs

 

[DaGeo]

Because "Mormon" was a fictional character created by Joseph Smith, I would change that to say:


So, this obvious error, that even a Mormon could identify and that virtually everyone knew to be an error, is being compared to Mormonism’s ORIGINAL and EGREGIOUS contradictions and errors in the original FIRST COPY written by Joseph Smith. But Joseph Smith== is not only a proven false prophet but a false historian as well

Thank you Janice, l appreciate your reply and all your well written and very informed posts.
Yes, Mormon is only an invention in the imagination of Joseph Smith.
I referred to Mormon as if he were real and exposed in trial court as a false prophet and false historian
I often combine mixaphores, dead metaphors and aphorisms then multiply them all with hyperbole????

 

[radvermin]

I suppose you will have to make up your own mind about what you believe. That is your choice.

What makes the Bible special, IMO-- is it leads us to Christ--the same as the Book of Mormon.

Is that it? What about it being God breathed?
I think this an important topic in relation to what I asked before. There are things that are true, and then there are things that are Scripture. So what makes something Scripture, in your view? Just that it points to Jesus?

So--how are you claiming 2Nephi25:23 differs from the Biblical testimony?

Well... how does 2 Nephi 25:23 differ from Ephesians 2:8?

Matthew 10:22---King James Version
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Yes, not through works, but through faith.

 

[Bonnie]

Why is she so unaware of her Mormon beliefs

He, not she. From my 10 years of experience on here, some Mormons aren't always aware of all of their church's teachings, and sometimes, when a non-Mormon puts down something their church teaches, that they did not know about, they are quite surprised. And demand proof from us. Even when we give it to them, straight from official Mormon sources, some are reluctant to admit that we were correct. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

 

[Bonnie]

Is that it? What about it being God breathed?
I think this an important topic in relation to what I asked before. There are things that are true, and then there are things that are Scripture. So what makes something Scripture, in your view? Just that it points to Jesus?


Well... how does 2 Nephi 25:23 differ from Ephesians 2:8?


Yes, not through works, but through faith.

Exactly, Someone who endures to the end IN FAITH in Jesus Christ, NOT just endurance in and of itself, apart from Christ, will be saved.

 

[Bonnie]

This is from utlm.org about all of the nearly 4000 changes made to the BoM over the years, and how even in the first edition, the changes were NOT do due typesetting errors...in fact, it was singularly lacking in those.

Introduction to 3,913 Changes

"That errors of grammar and faults in dictation do exist in the Book of Mormon (and more especially and abundantly in the first edition) must be conceded; and what is more, while some of the errors may be referred to inefficient proof-reading, such as is to be expected in a country printing establishment, yet such is the nature of the errors in question, and so interwoven are they throughout the diction of the Book, that they may not be disposed of by saying they result from inefficient proof-reading or referring them to the mischievous disposition of the 'typos' or the unfriendliness of the publishing house. The errors are constitutional in their character; they are of the web and woof of the style, and not such errors as may be classed as typographical. Indeed, the first edition of the Book of Mormon is SINGULARLY FREE FROM TYPOGRAPHICAL ERRORS." (Defense of the Faith, by B. H. Roberts, pp. 280-281; reprinted in A New Witness For Christ in America, by Francis W. Kirkham, Vol. 1, pp. 200-201)

B. H. Roberts was one of the premier apologists in the LDS church, who wrote much about the LDS faith. He continues:

In a footnote on page 295 of the same book Mr. Roberts stated:

"But after due allowance is made for all these conditions, the errors are so numerous, and of such a constitutional nature, that they cannot be explained away by these unfavorable conditions under which the work was published."

The printer of the BoM himself explained the bad grammar in the BoM:

John H. Gilbert, the man who helped to print the Book of Mormon, claimed that the Mormons did not want him to correct the grammatical errors which were in the manuscript:

"When the printer was ready to commence work, Harris was notified, and Hyrum Smith brought the first installment of manuscript ... On the second day — Harris and Smith being in the office — I called their attention to a grammatical error, and asked whether I should correct it? Harris consulted with Smith a short time, and turned to me and said: 'The Old Testament is ungrammatical, set it as it is written.' ... .

"Cowdery held and looked over the manuscript when most of the proofs were read. Martin Harris once or twice, and Hyrum Smith once, Grandin supposing these men could read their own writing as well, if not better, than any one else; and if there are any discrepancies between the Palmyra edition and the manuscript these men should be held responsible." (Memorandum, made by John H. Gilbert, Esq., September 8, 1892, Palmyra, N.Y., printed in Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 1, Introduction)

This treatise is very interesting; it is heavily cited and cannot be taken lightly. Joseph spoke bad grammar and that bad grammar ended up in the original BoM. Which his god was supposed to have inspired him to translate. Guess the Mormon god didn't know good, English grammar.

 

[Janice Bower]

Why is she so unaware of her Mormon beliefs

Mormons who come here, for the most part, are aware of their beliefs. I think their goal is to pull the wool over our eyes. It is typical of them to be well-versed with the arguments they present. I am an ex-Mormon who has been studying Mormonism since my baptism into their church. It helps to know a lot about the complex religion that evolved over the years. I still have the racist copy of the Book of Mormon that the missionaries gave me. I'm more interested in their scriptures and teachings than in Joseph Smith's history.

What I see is that dberrie2020 likes to take the teaching about Mormon redemption out of context of Mormonism as a whole. The word redemption per Mormonism is entirely different than salvation which has to be earned through obedience to Mormonism. Redemption doesn't guarantee eternal life. Many of us have explained evangelical beliefs to him, but he insists on needling Bonnie and others who believe that works follow salvation. He wants us to believe that we must do the works before God will save us instead of believing that God motivates the ones He gives faith (Ephesians 2) while they are still lost. Mormons, especially dberrie2020, are scrutinizing our posts, looking for opportunities to pounce on us. Being aware of that and knowing when they will pounce is helpful. But I would encourage you to stay with us and continue to gain knowledge and experience.

 

[dberrie2020]

Why is she so unaware of her Mormon beliefs

Are you new here?

 

[dberrie2020]

There is a cure for the "burning in the bosom." It's called "Tums."

I'm not sure Tums was available then:

Luke 24:32---King James Version
32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

 

[dberrie2020]

dberrie said---My question was--what does one find in the Book of Mormon which isn't found in the Biblical NT--as far as salvational doctrines go.

If one can't find any differences--then it would certainly weaken the argument the Book of Mormon is an unChristian book,

Says the woman who didn't list one thing the Book of Mormon contains--which isn't found in the Biblical text--as far as salvational doctrines go.

Surely--if the Book of Mormon is as unChristian as is claimed here by our critics--then one would not have any difficulty in listing a page of differences.

Silence. Not one entry. That has to make a statement of some sort, IMO.

Just because I don't answer all your questions when you desire those responses doesn't warrant snide remarks.

It seems to me if one believes the Book of Mormon is so corrupt--then they wouldn't have any problems listing a page of salvational doctrines found in the Book of Mormon--which isn't found in the Biblical text.

For me--it's suspicious that you--nor anyone else--can't provide that list for us.

Anyone?

I don't even find the theology pawned here by the critics--in the Biblical text:

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Very friendly to LDS theology.

 

[Janice Bower]

dberrie said---My question was--what does one find in the Book of Mormon which isn't found in the Biblical NT--as far as salvational doctrines go.

If one can't find any differences--then it would certainly weaken the argument the Book of Mormon is an unChristian book,

Says the woman who didn't list one thing the Book of Mormon contains--which isn't found in the Biblical text--as far as salvational doctrines go.

Surely--if the Book of Mormon is as unChristian as is claimed here by our critics--then one would not have any difficulty in listing a page of differences.

Silence. Not one entry. That has to make a statement of some sort, IMO.



It seems to me if one believes the Book of Mormon is so corrupt--then they wouldn't have any problems listing a page of salvational doctrines found in the Book of Mormon--which isn't found in the Biblical text.

For me--it's suspicious that you--nor anyone else--can't provide that list for us.

Anyone?

I don't even find the theology pawned here by the critics--in the Biblical text:

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Very friendly to LDS theology.

Most Mormons don't understand the spiritual truths in the Bible.

Your attitude towards Christians is to look for ways to find fault. That's okay. We don't come here solely because you have a fictional book called Book of Mormon. How many posts have non-Mormons made? Do you like our posts? I doubt it. Yet you keep coming back. Are you here to learn or insult?

 

[DaGeo]

Mormons who come here, for the most part, are aware of their beliefs. I think their goal is to pull the wool over our eyes. It is typical of them to be well-versed with the arguments they present. I am an ex-Mormon who has been studying Mormonism since my baptism into their church. It helps to know a lot about the complex religion that evolved over the years. I still have the racist copy of the Book of Mormon that the missionaries gave me. I'm more interested in their scriptures and teachings than in Joseph Smith's history.

What I see is that dberrie2020 likes to take the teaching about Mormon redemption out of context of Mormonism as a whole. The word redemption per Mormonism is entirely different than salvation which has to be earned through obedience to Mormonism. Redemption doesn't guarantee eternal life. Many of us have explained evangelical beliefs to him, but he insists on needling Bonnie and others who believe that works follow salvation. He wants us to believe that we must do the works before God will save us instead of believing that God motivates the ones He gives faith (Ephesians 2) while they are still lost. Mormons, especially dberrie2020, are scrutinizing our posts, looking for opportunities to pounce on us. Being aware of that and knowing when they will pounce is helpful. But I would encourage you to stay with us and continue to gain knowledge and experience.

Thank you Janice, very much appreciate any information you send. Please feel free to correct any misinformation coming from me as well. Hopfully I’ll be carful to avoid mistakes but I most certainly value and will welcome any correction

Romans 1 and the gospels seem to indicate that human pride and the love of sin blinds, even the most intellectual people, to the truth. I’m not trying to teach, just kinda posting an observation concerning the tendency of devotees to Mormonism or any other false religion for that matter, to hide in the darkness form the light of truth

Besides being subject to the prince of this world, who blinds his subjects, how else could one explain the pure idiocy it takes for very intelligent people to believe such stupid ideas like Mormonism, evolution, Buddhism or any the other type of nonsense belief?

In Mormonism, the main prophet, Joesph Smith, can’t even pass the simple prophet test for all his false prophecies. In addition to that, he never performed a real miracle like those performed by true writers of scripture. Then there’s the Book of Mormon having undergone 4000 changes almost immediately after it was written

Mormon makes less sense than even the evolution hoax. The number of intelligent people duped by evolution and Mormon nonsense is staggering

I believe it’s sin that makes people blind to the truth. Some people just don’t wanna be accountable to the real God because he calls them to repentance. They turn away from the light of God’s truth because they love themselves and their pride and their sin, just exactly like Jesus said they would. Their self-righteous pride forbids them to humble themselves and confess their absolute sinfulness.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f




Proverbs 4:18The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,

shining brighter and brighter until midday.

19But the way of the wicked is like the darkest gloom;

they do not know what makes them stumble.

 

[Janice Bower]

Thank you Janice, very much appreciate any information you send. Please feel free to correct any misinformation coming from me as well. Hopfully I’ll be carful to avoid mistakes but I most certainly value and will welcome any correction

Romans 1 and the gospels seem to indicate that human pride and the love of sin blinds, even the most intellectual people, to the truth. I’m not trying to teach, just kinda posting an observation concerning the tendency of devotees to Mormonism or any other false religion for that matter, to hide in the darkness form the light of truth

Besides being subject to the prince of this world, who blinds his subjects, how else could one explain the pure idiocy it takes for very intelligent people to believe such stupid ideas like Mormonism, evolution, Buddhism or any the other type of nonsense belief?

In Mormonism, the main prophet, Joesph Smith, can’t even pass the simple prophet test for all his false prophecies. In addition to that, he never performed a real miracle like those performed by true writers of scripture. Then there’s the Book of Mormon having undergone 4000 changes almost immediately after it was written

Mormon makes less sense than even the evolution hoax. The number of intelligent people duped by evolution and Mormon nonsense is staggering

I believe it’s sin that makes people blind to the truth. Some people just don’t wanna be accountable to the real God because he calls them to repentance. They turn away from the light of God’s truth because they love themselves and their pride and their sin, just exactly like Jesus said they would. Their self-righteous pride forbids them to humble themselves and confess their absolute sinfulness.

John 3:19-20
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21But whoever practices the truth comes into the Light, so that it may be seen clearly that what he has done has been accomplished in God.”f




Proverbs 4:18The path of the righteous is like the first gleam of dawn,

shining brighter and brighter until midday.

19But the way of the wicked is like the darkest gloom;

they do not know what makes them stumble.

My observation after many years in their church is that Mormons are zealous for their gods, very .obedient to many rules, feel that their goal of godhood depends on obedience to leaders, rules and ordinances. They have family home evening once a week (lesson manuals provided), I never heard a woman criticize her husband (that would definitely be frowned upon; the previous temple ceremony wives vowed to be obedient to the husband) and they now are to be obedient if he is obedient to the Lord. I don't know if women are still required to wear dresses to church. The women do visiting teaching once a month with one other woman to sisters in their ward, a husband and wife are home teachers to other couples once a month, obedient Mormons pay tithes and obey the Word of Wisdom. Those who don't like to obey usually become inactive. Serious sins can result in ex-communication. Mormons strive to be their version of righteous so they can be with their own families in the next life. Perhaps you already know all of this.

 

[dberrie2020]

Most Mormons don't understand the spiritual truths in the Bible.

It's not hard to see there is a conflict in the Biblical testimony--and the theology the critics bring here:

Romans 6:16---King James Version
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

How do you explain that?