Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife

stiggy wiggy said:
Nonsense. He obviously did not expect the "end of the age" to come any time soon. Look at all the events He said must transpire first (Matthew 24). Do you really think, for example, that He thought the gospel would be preached in ALL THE WORLD within the next few years?
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You think the extreme supernatural events of the coming of the Kingdom and the Apocalypse was something that he was going let pedestrian missionaries control as they wander about, take some boats to visit Indians and Polynesians, convert Muslims, tell the Mayans to stop sacrificing other tribes, have Marco Polo spread some Christ candy to the east? Read the OT prophesies where the nations would be made to recognize Israel and all knees would bow... it’s a big global prophetic event... not a meandering proselytizing that is losing ground as we speak. Daft.

Desperate apology there. It was clear what he meant. You don’t want to believe he meant what he said, like he said it, because that screws the presupposition that the Bible is true, forcing you to invent the irrational answers as the only ones that can possibly make your presupposition work.
 
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5wize said:
You think the extreme supernatural events of the coming of the Kingdom and the Apocalypse was something that he was going let pedestrian missionaries control as they wander about, take some boats to visit Indians and Polynesians, convert Muslims, tell the Mayans to stop sacrificing other tribes, have Marco Polo spread some Christ candy to the east?
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What the hell is "Christ candy?" You have this repugnant habit of trying to make up for your failed content by using cutesy meaningless phrases. I think you think you're adding poetry to your otherwise staid prose but you just come across as a jackwagon. You're no P.J. O'rourke. You try too hard and it shows.

Your irrelevant questioning of just how the Incarnate Jesus of Nazareth believed the gospel would be spread all over the world before His return does not address the fact that in first century Palestine there was no way it was even close to being able to be done in a mere few years, during the lifetime of His disciples. It didn't address it at all, but it sure afforded you an opportunity to ramble some oooh, so cutting rhetoric, didn't it? Barf!

Read the OT prophesies where the nations would be made to recognize Israel and all knees would bow...
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Yeah, that would take years. Peter would be older than Methuselah. Did you MEAN to refute your own position?
 
treeplanter said:
Take your scripture, roll it up - good and tight, and then stick it where the sun don't shine, stigs

According to millions of Christians {yourself included per your answer above} God says that those who die apart from Christ go to Hell
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Wrong. I said YOU, specifically are bound for hell. I said nothing about anyone else.

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them

Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
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Neither say a thing about hell.

Like I said, if you don't change your mind {like SteveB did} to automatically agree with God on all things that He says matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity
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Then prove it. Cough up the Bible verses, tough guy. Try not to come up with another failure like you did above.
 
treeplanter said:
A normal human being says:

"No, you do not have to accept Jesus Christ in order to receive salvation"

or

"Yes, you do have to accept Jesus Christ in order to receive salvation"


SteveB says:
"You've already had this one answered a few hundred times before"



You're delusional
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Ironically, this is exactly what YHVH said you'd say to people.... explicitly because of the magnitude of your sin.


Hos 9:7 WEB The days of visitation have come. The days of reckoning have come. Israel will consider the prophet to be a fool, and the man who is inspired to be insane, because of the abundance of your sins, and because your hostility is great.

So, I'm curious Tree.... who's perspective do you think carries greater worth in my book, yours, a guy whose lifespan is less than 6 decades, and whose rage, vitriol, and desire to decimate the followers of Jesus in whatever way they believe will achieve their goals of destroying the world and creating a new one in their own image?

Or the God who created the human race in his own likeness and image, giving us everything needed to live a great life, and didn't destroy us, but provided his only begotten son, to save us, and give us eternal life....?

I realize that you think that you should be believed, without question, but YHVH's opinions carry far greater value and worth than yours.

You really need to grow up and get over yourself.


treeplanter said:
tree:
"If you don't change your mind to automatically agree with me on all things that I say matters then you will go to Hell where you will be burned and tortured for eternity"
This is what God says

Steve:
"He never said that"


99% of Steve's posts:
"Come to Jesus or you will go to Hell"


Which is it, Steve???
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Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus.

Oh... wait. I forgot.... I've been explaining this for over a decade now, in thousands of posts... but.... alas.... apparently you lack the ability to make sense of so primal, and basic a concept.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
What the hell is "Christ candy?" You have this repugnant habit of trying to make up for your failed content by using cutesy meaningless phrases. I think you think you're adding poetry to your otherwise staid prose but you just come across as a jackwagon. You're no P.J. O'rourke. You try too hard and it shows.
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Stiggy.... the self proclaimed jerk. So easily triggered by self recognition. You are invited to just eff-off anytime. Why don’t you just do it now. You are a weak analyst of your own beliefs. You know too little of how your loved canon was formed to even have a useful opinion of it. Just roll the eyes back.... Hold the arms out upright.... the waiting is almost over for you... any time now.
stiggy wiggy said:
Your irrelevant questioning of just how the Incarnate Jesus of Nazareth believed the gospel would be spread all over the world before His return does not address the fact that in first century Palestine there was no way it was even close to being able to be done in a mere few years, during the lifetime of His disciples.
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wow... with all this supernatural war going on where the Son of Man will come in a cloud and the supernatural wackiness of Revelation will engulf the earth.... suddenly Stiggy becomes a strict naturalist. Are you schizophrenic?
 
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5wize said:
Stiggy.... the self proclaimed jerk. So easily triggered by self recognition.
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So let's combine those two sentences: I'm triggering myself?

You are invited to just eff-off anytime.
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Is that an RSVP invitation? I insist on a formal embossed card in the mail.

Why don’t you just do it now.
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Not until the NCAA tourney is over. I got some mammon riding on it.

You know too little of how your loved canon was formed to even have a useful opinion of it.
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I never expressed an opinion on it, mostly because the subject does not interest me. See my previous OP about my apathy as to how or by whom a good steak is made.

But what's that have to do with your inability to explain how Jesus supposedly thought the gospel would be spread throughout the entire world during the lifetime of His disciples?
 
stiggy wiggy said:
So let's combine those two sentences: I'm triggering myself?



Is that an RSVP invitation? I insist on a formal embossed card in the mail.



Not until the NCAA tourney is over. I got some mammon riding on it.



I never expressed an opinion on it, mostly because the subject does not interest me. See my previous OP about my apathy as to how or by whom a good steak is made.

But what's that have to do with your inability to explain how Jesus supposedly thought the gospel would be spread throughout the entire world during the lifetime of His disciples?
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The same way the prophets of his tradition thought it would happen. Like I said... all this supernatural gaga going on and Stiggy declares naturalism.
 
stiggy wiggy said:
For rejecting Christ.
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And what about those who die apart from Christ - not because they consciously and purposefully reject Him as I do, but because they have been deceived into believing in false gods and/or sincerely deceived into believing that there is no such thing as a god{s}?

What happens to them?

Where does scripture say that those who reject Christ will be sent to Hell?
Verse, please
 
5wize said:
The same way the prophets of his tradition thought it would happen.
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Wrong. Those prophets knew nothing about the gospel being spread throughout the world.

Like I said... all this supernatural gaga going on and Stiggy declares naturalism.
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How convenient, as well as weird. An atheist gets stuck for an answer and just declares, "SUPERNATURAL." You figure maybe Jesus thought that after His ascension, His Father would provide magical wings for His disciples?
 
stiggy wiggy said:
Wrong. Those prophets knew nothing about the gospel being spread throughout the world.
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Right - Isaiah 40:5 – “And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”. Give yourself a break Stiggy... Read Jonathon Livingston Seagull if you are only into scripture as comfort food pablum.
stiggy wiggy said:
How convenient, as well as weird. An atheist gets stuck for an answer and just declares, "SUPERNATURAL." You figure maybe Jesus thought that after His ascension, His Father would provide magical wings for His disciples?
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LoL... Stuck! See above.... god seems to not feel as restricted the way you seem to think he should be. The bible is ripe with this stuff Stiggy. Here’s some more for you... Matt 26:

"62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”

Was Jesus saying your grandkids will see it.... the Romans... the people of some far off land in some far off era when the unlikely event happens that everyone will hear the word? Did Jesus tell them that here? No, he said, “You will see the son on man....”, "YOU will see....."

Jesus thought it was eminent stuff as declared on the cross when he thought himself forsaken .... Read it as it is..... or go read C.S. Lewis’s pap about it and leave it at that.
 
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stiggy wiggy said:
Doesn't cut what? What am I supposed to be cutting?



No. You figure it out. I'm the teacher here. You're my pupil.
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I know what Matthew 25:31-46 means to me
I know what I believe Christians, in general, make of Matthew 25:31-46

What I don't know is what YOU think it means

So, do tell...
 
5wize said:
Right - Isaiah 40:5 – “And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all mankind together will see it. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
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Whoops. You left out the part where they talk about whether or not that will happen in the same time span that the Messiah's disciples are alive. Just an oversight, I'm sure.

Read Jonathon Livingston Seagull
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I'll need to borrow your illustrated version. It's probably on the shelf in your library right next to "Fun with Dick and Jane."

if you are only into scripture as comfort food pablum.
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So you think all those words of Jesus about tribulation are meant to be words of comfort. Aww, you had a little brain fart there and forgot the subject matter, eh?

Matt 26:

"62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, “Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?” 63 But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, “I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.”
64 “You have said so,” Jesus replied. “But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
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AMEN! Great stuff! I love an atheistic Bible thumper. Keep 'em coming.

Was Jesus saying your grandkids will see it.... the Romans... the people of some far off land in some far off era when the unlikely event happens that everyone will hear the word? Did Jesus tell them that here? No, he said, “You will see the son on man....”, "YOU will see....."
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AMEN Again. We ALL will see. Did you forget that in your native language the same pronoun is used for the second person plural as the second person singular? Don't tell me you're some kind of wokester who changes the meanings of pronouns.

Jesus thought it was eminent stuff
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The word you're looking for is "imminent," not "eminent." You're struggling, aren't you?

or go read C.S. Lewis’s pap
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His pap never published anything. His stepson did though. Good stuff.
 
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