In Romans chapters 9-11 where is Paul ever speaking of the whole nation of Israel?

[Yahweh will increase]

You seem to have missed the part where I said "a true disciple." True disciples do know the truth of God or they wouldn't be true disciples.

Where did you say this? I didn't see this and I just looked again and still don't see it,.

What you did say is this and I quote "Because true disciples know what good fruit looks like" and that is not the same thing at all

False prophets know nothing about the works of God which He prepares for the children of God to do. Ephesians 2:10.

Then how could they be wearing outward works that look like those of one of Jesus' sheep then and like Jesus clearly said they would be?

Fake Christians, pretenders, just do their own works rather than God's works. True disciples know the difference.

Well that is true in the sence that what they do is not what God willed for htem and told them to do, but they still do works that look like what a true believer does and Jesus said that they do also.

They don't have an inkling of a clue concerning a lot of things.

Well if you mean the truth of God's word I would agree with you but if you are talking about what the righteousness of God looks like outwardly in a true believer, that is not that hard to fake, for Jim Jones did pretty well with it at his beginnings and so did many other false prophets as well

Furthermore, the mainstream churches are loaded with them today also.

 

[Our Lord's God]

Where did you say this? I didn't see this and I just looked again and still don't see it,.

Then you must be blind.

What you did say is this and I quote "Because true disciples know what good fruit looks like" and that is not the same thing at all

Still blind eh?

Then how could they be wearing outward works that look like those of one of Jesus' sheep then and like Jesus clearly said they would be?

By doing their own works by their own design.

Good grief man, did you actually think false prophets could ever be doing Ephesians 2:10 works?

Well that is true in the sence that what they do is not what God willed for htem and told them to do, but they still do works that look like what a true believer does and Jesus said that they do also.

But true disciples know the difference between genuine diamonds and fake diamonds. It is incredibly easy for them actually.

Well if you mean the truth of God's word I would agree with you but if you are talking about what the righteousness of God looks like outwardly in a true believer, that is not that hard to fake,

The righteousness of God is impossible to fake. False prophets simply offer men the righteousness of men and try and pass it off as the righteousness of God.

for Jim Jones did pretty well with it at his beginnings and so did many other false prophets as well

Worldly people deceive worldly people without much trouble. So what?

Furthermore, the mainstream churches are loaded with them today also.

You are only confusing yourself.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Then you must be blind.



Still blind eh?



By doing their own works by their own design.

Good grief man, did you actually think false prophets could ever be doing Ephesians 2:10 works?



But true disciples know the difference between genuine diamonds and fake diamonds. It is incredibly easy for them actually.



The righteousness of God is impossible to fake. False prophets simply offer men the righteousness of men and try and pass it off as the righteousness of God.



Worldly people deceive worldly people without much trouble. So what?



You are only confusing yourself.

No, but I think you are the one who is confused and I don't want to labor myself in arguing with you about it either.

However, you need to determine what your real motive and purpose is in all of this, because it all comes down to what is in the heart and which is the difference between outward works of righteousness which can be faked and that which is real within the heart from a true conversion and which cannot be faked.

What I see here, is that you have a bitterness that you need to deal with and until you do, don't bother replying to any more of my posts, becasue I will not reply back to you.

We are not here to compete with one another as though this was a game to see who knows more about the Bible or at least we shouldn't be and it appears to me by your argumentation that this is really what you are all about but i am not interested, so find someone else who is and leave me out of it.

 

[Our Lord's God]

No, but I think you are the one who is confused and I don't want to labor myself in arguing with you about it either.

However, you need to determine what your real motive and purpose is in all of this, because it all comes down to what is in the heart and which is the difference between outward works of righteousness which can be faked and that which is real within the heart from a true conversion and which cannot be faked.

No, the difference is whether it is God's works or yours.

What I see here, is that you have a bitterness that you need to deal with and until you do, don't bother replying to any more of my posts, becasue I will not reply back to you.

We are not here to compete with one another as though this was a game to see who knows more about the Bible or at least we shouldn't be and it appears to me by your argumentation that this is really what you are all about but i am not interested, so find someone else who is and leave me out of it.

Make up whatever story you like.

 

[leonard03782]

Here is a question for you, Jesus in Matthew 7 told his disciples to beware of false prophets who come to them in sheeps clothing but inwardly they are ravening wolves, and that they will know them by the fruits?

So if the false prophets are wearing sheeps clothing or to put it more plainly, if they are hidding behind sheeps clothing, how will the true disciple of Jesus know them by their fruits like Jesus said they would?

By reading the Scriptures in the true litteral fashion unless it is clear that the passage is metaphorical or symbolic.

Oh and here is another question, do you think that those who are not true disciples and do not belong to Christ will know the false prophets by their fruits also?

Nope.

What are the fruits that Jesus is speaking of and what would you look for to see them in the false prophets?

I would know the whether the fruit is bad depending on how they handle the Scriptures. If someone's only defenceman of their point of view is to ask a gotcha question, they are not handling the Scriptures properly.

It is amazing to me that within the 30 and better years that I attended a church that believes like you do on this subject, that I never heard any minister exsplain correctly what Jesus meant by this and I have heard many sermons on it also, but none of them even came close to what he was referring to as their fruit.

Yet the truth about it is really quite simple.

So it is no wonder why they are so blind about many other of their doctrines as well as eschatology and prophecy.

Let me guess......you were able to figure it out all by yourself.

BTW; having an improper eschatology does not affect one's salvation. Having a wrong opinion about end times events will not exclude one from heaven. At this point in time, we have imperfect knowledge. I would rather take a section of Scripture at face value than to try to debunk it by focusing on one word. In the end, we will all find out that there were areas in which we were right and areas in which we were wrong. The most important thing is to get the Gospel of Jesus Christ right.

 

[leonard03782]

No, but I think you are the one who is confused and I don't want to labor myself in arguing with you about it either.

However, you need to determine what your real motive and purpose is in all of this, because it all comes down to what is in the heart and which is the difference between outward works of righteousness which can be faked and that which is real within the heart from a true conversion and which cannot be faked.

What I see here, is that you have a bitterness that you need to deal with and until you do, don't bother replying to any more of my posts, becasue I will not reply back to you.

We are not here to compete with one another as though this was a game to see who knows more about the Bible or at least we shouldn't be and it appears to me by your argumentation that this is really what you are all about but i am not interested, so find someone else who is and leave me out of it.

Then why don't you act like it??

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Then why don't you act like it??

When it comes to those on this forum who are believing and teaching severe false doctrines like you are, I am not here to molly coddle you with soft words, becasue I am no brother to that group.

So you are in a totally different catogory than "the Lord's God" is and therefore it is really none of your business what I post to him anyhow.

If you want soft words from me, then repent of your severe false doctrines and start seeking and asking and waiting upon God for the truth of his word while keeping your mind and those who are teaching you this nonsense out of God's way so he can speak to your heart when you are reading the scriptures.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

By reading the Scriptures in the true litteral fashion unless it is clear that the passage is metaphorical or symbolic.

That is close, but do you think that when Daniel 9:27 states that "he will give strength to a covenant with many for one week" that you are taking this literal when you then say that he will end up breaking that same covenant in the middle of the week?

Do you think you are taking Daniel 9:27 literally when you do this and no such thing is even stated in this text anyway?

Where is it ever actually stated that "he breaks the covenant in the middle of the week"?

Show me where that is stated?

Nope.

That is correct but why?

I would know the whether the fruit is bad depending on how they handle the Scriptures. If someone's only defenceman of their point of view is to ask a gotcha question, they are not handling the Scriptures properly.

Where did you get that idea from?

That is not correct, for sometimes questions are necessary to get someone who is off tract to think about what they are really believing and saying so that they will reconsider their position.

Knowing whether a prophet is a true or false prophet really can't be determined by how another thinks that the scriptures should or shouldn't be handled, for the one making such determinations could have a wrong understanding of that also.

How does Paul in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 tells us that we should know the truth from the scriptures, by whose mind and intellect should we gain the knowledge from?

Read 1 Corinthians 2:11-16, what does Paul tell us about this?

Let me guess......you were able to figure it out all by yourself.

No, that is not correct.

BTW; having an improper eschatology does not affect one's salvation. Having a wrong opinion about end times events will not exclude one from heaven. At this point in time, we have imperfect knowledge. I would rather take a section of Scripture at face value than to try to debunk it by focusing on one word. In the end, we will all find out that there were areas in which we were right and areas in which we were wrong. The most important thing is to get the Gospel of Jesus Christ right.

Having improper and false dogmatic doctrine on any given subject subject in the Bible is a sign that there is something seriously wrong with your beliefs and which could even mean that you aren't really saved also.

Notice I said that it could even mean that you aren't really and truly saved and not that it automatically means you aren't.

I was wrong in my doctrines for better than 30 years of my conversion to Christ and yet I was still saved and this is the case with many today in the churches also and this is because many years ago the church fell into the apostasy that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3 and the doctrines have been twisted ever since.

Paul very clearly also tells us in 2 Thessalonians 2:7 that the "mystery of the iniquity (false doctrine that is heading for full apostasy) was already working in the church while he was alive and he says this in many other letters that he wrote also and he even says it in tears in Acts 20 below.

Acts 20:29 I know that after I leave (after he dies), savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. 31 So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.


You should also notice, that Paul has no soft words for false prophets but calls them what they are "ravening wolves"

 

[leonard03782]

When it comes to those on this forum who are believing and teaching severe false doctrines like you are, I am not here to molly coddle you with soft words, becasue I am no brother to that group.

So you are in a totally different catogory than "the Lord's God" is and therefore it is really none of your business what I post to him anyhow.

If you want soft words from me, then repent of your severe false doctrines and start seeking and asking and waiting upon God for the truth of his word while keeping your mind and those who are teaching you this nonsense out of God's way so he can speak to your heart when you are reading the scriptures.

I do not need you to explain "soft" in your words with me.. you are the one that is wrong in your presentation.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I do not need you to explain "soft" in your words with me.. you are the one that is wrong in your presentation.

Well I would be wrong in using hard words if I was talking to someone who revealed by their doctrine that they are a true brother in the Lord but not when I am talking to someone who reveals by their doctrine that they are in leaque with the Devil and therefore need to hear hard words.

By the way, this is what Jesus was referring to as the fruit of a false prophet, for a prophet is suppose to be a mouth piece for God's truth and if he is speaking false doctrines, then he is not a prophet of God or a teacher of God's word either.


This is also why those who either don't truly belong to God or do but have gone way off track in the present apostasy, would not know the difference and that is why you don't also.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Because he is referring to the Sophia mythology in which Christ descends into materiality that his audience was keenly aware of but was subsequently suppressed and destroyed by the catholic church until rediscovered in the Nag Hammadi and arguably in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Sophia in Greek = Wisdom in English is interpreted by Paul to be the inner Christ in Hebrew scripture.

Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God (1 cor 1:30)​

It is beyond the scope of this OP but you will probably never know about it since you only read your Bible. This is an example when culture and history of apostolic times are critical components to understanding what the Bible means. Something that you fail to recognize.

That is part of your big problem, that you trust in too many other things other than the scriptures and the scriptures are the inspired by God truth and nothing else.

You don't even need to read all of that other stuff to understand the truth of 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, for the truth within them speaks for itself as long as we are keeping our little carnally infected beeny and that also of others out of it when we read it.

Everything in the Christian life is supposed to be by faith in God and his ability to give us what we need and especailly from the scriptures and it is the opposite of walking in the flesh where we trust ourselves or other human beings instead.

I find it very amusing how many people will tell you that the Lord told them this and the Lord told them that and yet they had to go to Bible college and have a human being tell them what the word of God says.

What is more, is that I wonder where they every got the practice to be able to hear God speaking to them on issues outside of the scriptures when they have never practiced in seeking God hear his instruction from the Holy Spirit on the truth from the scriptures themselves.


Where would they have learned to hear God speaking to them on issues outside of the scriptures when they never practiced learning how to hear God speaking to them concerning the scriptures but had to go to other men or their own thinking for that?

 

[Our Lord's God]

That is part of your big problem, that you trust in too many other things other than the scriptures and the scriptures are the inspired by God truth and nothing else.

You don't even need to read all of that other stuff to understand the truth of 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, for the truth within them speaks for itself as long as we are keeping our little carnally infected beeny and that also of others out of it when we read it.

Everything in the Christian life is supposed to be by faith in God and his ability to give us what we need and especailly from the scriptures and it is the opposite of walking in the flesh where we trust ourselves or other human beings instead.

Especially from the Spirit of God.

For to us God revealed through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the things of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in teachings of the Spirit, spiritual ones discerning spiritual things.


NO: Those who are led by their interpretations of the Scriptures, these are sons of God.
YES: Those who are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

 

[docphin5]

That is part of your big problem, that you trust in too many other things other than the scriptures and the scriptures are the inspired by God truth and nothing else.

You don't even need to read all of that other stuff to understand the truth of 1 Corinthians chapters 1-3, for the truth within them speaks for itself as long as we are keeping our little carnally infected beeny and that also of others out of it when we read it.

Everything in the Christian life is supposed to be by faith in God and his ability to give us what we need and especailly from the scriptures and it is the opposite of walking in the flesh where we trust ourselves or other human beings instead.

I find it very amusing how many people will tell you that the Lord told them this and the Lord told them that and yet they had to go to Bible college and have a human being tell them what the word of God says.

What is more, is that I wonder where they every got the practice to be able to hear God speaking to them on issues outside of the scriptures when they have never practiced in seeking God hear his instruction from the Holy Spirit on the truth from the scriptures themselves.


Where would they have learned to hear God speaking to them on issues outside of the scriptures when they never practiced learning how to hear God speaking to them concerning the scriptures but had to go to other men or their own thinking for that?

I stand by what I said.

culture and history of apostolic times are critical components to understanding what the Bible means.​

​

Really, it should be this way if for no other reason than God forcing us to look to our “Fathers” in the faith going all the way back to antiquity. Lest we forget how we ended up where we are. God making us dependent upon them in order to preserve the unity of the church, not the organized religion that divides us, but the cloud of witnesses that surround us, those pious, virtuous souls from every nation, culture, and civilization in recorded history. Simply, we are being forced to ask, what did it mean to them? so that we will not forget them and ultimately bring them along with us on this journey called life.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I stand by what I said.

culture and history of apostolic times are critical components to understanding what the Bible means.​

​

Really, it should be this way if for no other reason than God forcing us to look to our “Fathers” in the faith going all the way back to antiquity. Lest we forget how we ended up where we are. God making us dependent upon them in order to preserve the unity of the church, not the organized religion that divides us, but the cloud of witnesses that surround us, those pious, virtuous souls from every nation, culture, and civilization in recorded history. Simply, we are being forced to ask, what did it mean to them? so that we will not forget them and ultimately bring them along with us on this journey called life.

Nonsense and the proof that this is false is in the fact that if someone didn't have those exrtra to the scriptures resources, then they couldn't understand the meaning of the scriptures without them.

You don't see this, but your own thinking and what others have taught you that is false is getting in the way of your hearing what God would speak to you, becauwe while he is attempting to speak to you through the scriptures, your mind is stiffling his voice so that you cannot hear the truth that he would be otherwise revealing to you.

A good example of this is when you are talking to someone and they are going ahead of you in determining what you are talking about before you say it, and therefore they never really hear you, and you are doing the same thing with God and the scriptures but you are not alone, for there are many others on this forum who are doing exactly the same thing also.

This is why the majority of the Jews didn't accept the truth, because they sank themselves in false ideas about it for so many years that when the truth finally came to them, they couldn't accept it as the truth because they falsely believed they aready knew the truth when they didn't.


This is what Jesus was revealing to them also when he said "if the words and works done among you, had of been done in Sodom and Gomorrah, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.

Why?


Becasue the Jews hand sunk themselves in false doctrine for many years and Sodom and Gomorrah didn't have any doctrine one way or another to disrupt the truth in their thinking.


This is the danger that happens when people fill their thinking with all kinds of false information for long periods of time and then the truth comes to them, for they will reject it becasue they have become addicted to the wrong information through rehearsing it over and over again in their minds.

I know all about this, for I have been there and experience it after being in the apostate churches and receiving their false doctrines for many years, it was real hard for God to get it through to me that their doctrines were false because I had spent so much time believing them and rehearsing them over and over again in my mind.

Therefore it was a real battle and it took many years for God to win the battle over my thinking also but he kept working with me out of his love for me and his choice to redeem me from it.