Intelligent Design in action

Gus Bovona said:
Great. Now you need to show tat it’s impossible, and questions like “how could that complexity just happen?” are not part of the discussion, as they show noth8ng.
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LOL...so you disallow the answer?

When will you show all of us how an assembly line of organelle such as presented in the video in the OP could have evolved???

You should be looking at each step in amazement...how did the barrel shaped machine know how to precisely fold the protein so the protein could perform its function? Back up a few steps and we see on the assembly line a nuclear core complex...an information recognition device that controls the flow of information in and out of the cells nucleus....then the next step is a TWO PART chemical factory so to speak, the ribosome then a chain of amino acids are built according to the instructions on the mRNA...

THIS EVOLVED VIA A PROCESS OF CHANCE MUTATIONS AND NATURAL SELECTION???? Wake up Gus.
 
CrowCross said:
LOL...so you disallow the answer?
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no, read it again. I’m disallowing **questions** masquerading as arguments or answers, like “ how could something so complex happen naturally?“

CrowCross said:
When will you show all of us how an assembly line of organelle such as presented in the video in the OP could have evolved???
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Its not necessary to show that in order to accept all the other evidence that evolution is true.

CrowCross said:
You should be looking at each step in amazement...
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I do.

CrowCross said:
how did the barrel shaped machine know how to precisely fold the protein so the protein could perform its function?
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there you go with those questions masquerading as arguments or answers again.

CrowCross said:
Back up a few steps and we see on the assembly line a nuclear core complex...an information recognition device that controls the flow of information in and out of the cells nucleus....then the next step is a TWO PART chemical factory so to speak, the ribosome then a chain of amino acids are built according to the instructions on the mRNA...

THIS EVOLVED VIA A PROCESS OF CHANCE MUTATIONS AND NATURAL SELECTION???? Wake up Gus.
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More questions masquerading as arguments or answers.

ETA: Just to be clear, the issue for which you have to present an actual argument or answer, and not just post questions, is to show that it is impossible for something like the organelle to have developed naturally.
 
CrowCross said:
You're the one claiming God was designed. Not me.

I will say it again....God always was and at no time wasn't.
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I am not claiming God was designed; ID makes that claim.

The ID argument runs:
  1. Complex properties require intelligent design.
  2. Intelligence is a complex property.
  3. Therefore, any intelligent being requires intelligent design.
If God is intelligent, then ID asserts that God was designed, by the above argument.

Of course there is a big logical problem there, in that the very first intelligent being cannot have been intelligently designed. Given that, then ID is self refuting. As you point out, the existence of an undesigned intelligent God shows that the ID argument is incorrect: there exists at least one undesigned complex intelligence.

Evolution avoids the problem by using a non-intelligent process, evolution, to develop intelligence.
 
Gus Bovona said:
no, read it again. I’m disallowing **questions** masquerading as arguments or answers, like “ how could something so complex happen naturally?“
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Answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally?

I've presented the complexity to you..showed how it's an assembly line process...stages dependent on each other...where each stage was in the right place...where each stage required the same amount of complexity to build them via another assembly line with multiple stages all following instructions.

So answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally? How Gus?????
 
rossum said:
I am not claiming God was designed; ID makes that claim.
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No, that is your claim....not the claim of ID.
rossum said:
The ID argument runs:
  1. Complex properties require intelligent design.
  2. Intelligence is a complex property.
  3. Therefore, any intelligent being requires intelligent design.
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Intelligence is designed?
rossum said:
If God is intelligent, then ID asserts that God was designed, by the above argument.
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Intelligence is designed???
rossum said:
Of course there is a big logical problem there, in that the very first intelligent being cannot have been intelligently designed. Given that, then ID is self refuting. As you point out, the existence of an undesigned intelligent God shows that the ID argument is incorrect: there exists at least one undesigned complex intelligence.
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LOL.
rossum said:
Evolution avoids the problem by using a non-intelligent process, evolution, to develop intelligence.
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How does a non-intelligent process evolve an assembly line of organelle?
 
CrowCross said:
Answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally?

I've presented the complexity to you..showed how it's an assembly line process...stages dependent on each other...where each stage was in the right place...where each stage required the same amount of complexity to build them via another assembly line with multiple stages all following instructions.

So answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally? How Gus?????
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By evolution. It's very good at producing complex structures and behaviours
 
rossum said:
It happened by evolution, a natural process.
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Long sigh....still no answer to how an assembly line of organelle could have evolved...were each stage on the assembly line required it's own separate assembly line to build it.....all driven by a code which had no author?
 
CrowCross said:
Long sigh....still no answer to how an assembly line of organelle could have evolved...were each stage on the assembly line required it's own separate assembly line to build it.....all driven by a code which had no author?
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It evolved piece by piece. Start with an RNA only system with RNA performing the functions of data storage and catalysis. Then add DNA as a beneficial improvement for data storage. Then add proteins as a beneficial improvement for catalysis. That leaves RNA sitting in the middle between the two. Hence mRNA, tRNA and the RNA in ribosomes, which are all part of the mapping process between DNA and proteins.

What we observe now is a complex system, which evolved from an earlier, simpler, RNA only system. As new parts evolved, the system grew more complex over time.
 
CrowCross said:
Answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally?
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I don’t know, but, remember,
Gus Bovona said:
Its not necessary to show that in order to accept all the other evidence that evolution is true.
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CrowCross said:
I've presented the complexity to you..showed how it's an assembly line process...stages dependent on each other...where each stage was in the right place...where each stage required the same amount of complexity to build them via another assembly line with multiple stages all following instructions.

So answer the question.... how could something so complex happen naturally? How Gus?????
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I don’t know, and
Gus Bovona said:
Its not necessary to show that in order to accept all the other evidence that evolution is true.
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rossum said:
It evolved piece by piece. Start with an RNA only system with RNA performing the functions of data storage and catalysis. Then add DNA as a beneficial improvement for data storage. Then add proteins as a beneficial improvement for catalysis. That leaves RNA sitting in the middle between the two. Hence mRNA, tRNA and the RNA in ribosomes, which are all part of the mapping process between DNA and proteins.

What we observe now is a complex system, which evolved from an earlier, simpler, RNA only system. As new parts evolved, the system grew more complex over time.
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Reference please.
 
Gus Bovona said:
No, I don’t, but I don’t insist, as you do, that it can’t (and, even worse, don’t show why it can’t beyond asking mere questions in incredulity).
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Come on Gus!

I've mentioned and demonstrated to you there is an assembly line of "components" where the DNA code is read..translated and passed through the assembly line where a pre-programed result is realized.

I then pointed out to you each stage on the aforementioned assembly line had its own assembly line made up of multiple assembly line stages to produce itself so it could be part of another assembly line.

For example an assembly line of organelle built and organelle that would become part of an other assembly line that makes organelle.

.....then you play the " incredulity" card? Seriously Gus????
 
CrowCross said:
Come on Gus!
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OK, I'll follow along!

CrowCross said:
I've mentioned and demonstrated to you there is an assembly line of "components" where the DNA code is read..translated and passed through the assembly line where a pre-programed result is realized.
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Right. Understood.

CrowCross said:
I then pointed out to you each stage on the aforementioned assembly line had its own assembly line made up of multiple assembly line stages to produce itself so it could be part of another assembly line.
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In a very clear, intelligent fashion, too.

CrowCross said:
For example an assembly line of organelle built and organelle that would become part of an other assembly line that makes organelle.
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Yup.

CrowCross said:
.....then you play the " incredulity" card? Seriously Gus????
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Rats, and it was going so well, too. Do you mean my incredulity or your incredulity? If mine, please quote the section of a post of mine that you are referring to.
 
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