Jesus below does away with TD

Christian

Christian

Well-known member
Jesus here refutes the doctrine of Total Depravity

Matthew 7:7-11
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

So much for mans innate evil that can give and do good things .

hope this helps !!!
 
Christian said:
Jesus here refutes the doctrine of Total Depravity

Matthew 7:7-11
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

So much for mans innate evil that can give and do good things .

hope this helps !!!
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Still dead.

Got to ask not to be.

How can we ask to be when we are dead?
 
Slyzr said:
Still dead.

Got to ask not to be.

How can we ask to be when we are dead?
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Not dead in the calvinist meaning of dead . All can be whereas they teach none can be only the elect that god makes alive without their consent . god makes the corpse alive who wanted to remain dead and hated god.
 
Christian said:
8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
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The above can't happen unless it is granted him by the Father.

John 6:65..
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
 
CrowCross said:
The above can't happen unless it is granted him by the Father.

John 6:65..
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
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So ......

Paul even admited he was a "father" for no one to ever be.

The only answer as far as I see it that we are.
 
CrowCross said:
The above can't happen unless it is granted him by the Father.

John 6:65..
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Click to expand...
Yes, this is the old, "Which comes first, the chicken or the egg?" Debate. At CARM, it's as if saying Faith is pivotal; it sweeps away Grace, Illumination, Regeneration, the Spirit, whatever...

It doesn't...
 
CrowCross said:
The above can't happen unless it is granted him by the Father.

John 6:65..
And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
Click to expand...
Wrong gospel . The OP is Mathew 7- the Sermon on the Mount which is absent from John’s gospel . Bait n switch duly noted .

next
 
cadwell said:
This is probably another topic, but Jesus is only referring to the 12 as being drawn by the Father. Everyone else Jesus draws to Himself, John 12:32.
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Amen a very poor attempt at a bait n switch . The least the poster could have done was try a bait n switch from the same gospel . A desperate attempt to protect a pet doctrine only found in the one isolated verse ripped out of context anyways .
 
Christian said:
Amen a very poor attempt at a bait n switch . The least the poster could have done was try a bait n switch from the same gospel . A desperate attempt to protect a pet doctrine only found in the one isolated verse ripped out of context anyways .
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And its more eisegesis. They formulate a doctrine from one verse, and read that doctrine into another verse.
 
Christian said:
Jesus here refutes the doctrine of Total Depravity

Matthew 7:7-11
7 “Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him!

So much for mans innate evil that can give and do good things .

hope this helps !!!
Click to expand...
I think you have to be careful of this approach. Think of who Jesus was preaching to and what kind of 'goodness' he is speaking of with regard to the evil and their gifting of those they love. Can those evil call upon the Lord of their own innate nature? Certainly not in the realm of Protestant theology.
 
travelah said:
I think you have to be careful of this approach. Think of who Jesus was preaching to and what kind of 'goodness' he is speaking of with regard to the evil and their gifting of those they love. Can those evil call upon the Lord of their own innate nature? Certainly not in the realm of Protestant theology.
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Don't understand what you are saying.

Are we all dead?
 
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travelah said:
I think you have to be careful of this approach. Think of who Jesus was preaching to and what kind of 'goodness' he is speaking of with regard to the evil and their gifting of those they love. Can those evil call upon the Lord of their own innate nature? Certainly not in the realm of Protestant theology.
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That's what I am talking about...
 
travelah said:
Dead in the sense of being spiritually separated from God and in a state of enmity toward him and his people. Of course I speak of those outside of Christ.
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Been reported before ......

Still dead.

Got anything besides man being dead?
 
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