Jesus warned us about Rome's church

Our Lord's God

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Jesus taught us that if they hated him and persecuted him they will do the very same thing to those who follow him.

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for my name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. John 15

Jesus came along preaching and teaching things which the religious leaders did not like. So they tried to discredit him but that didn't work. They just could not refute him and they were starting to look bad before the people when he kept shooting them down when they attempted to discredit him. And these religious teachers became very concerned about this problem since people were following Jesus rather than them.

So the Pharisees said to one another, “You see that you are not doing any good; look, the world has gone after Him.”

Well now they didn't like that too much. They wanted all the people to follow THEM (just like Rome does).

The Pharisee's Solution: Remove Jesus from the equation. Then he won't be a problem anymore.

And the way of the Pharisees has always been the way of the Roman Catholic Church. History shows us that for centuries Rome has adopted the same spirit of lawlessness as the Pharisees. They plot and conspire and plot and conspire. When a man rose up to speak that which Rome did not like, they conspired to have him removed from the equation by one means or another. They did this because they did not know Jesus or his Father.

Jesus did not do such things to anyone. He knew that the true power was in simply doing the will of God and that is all he had to do and the heretics would handily hang thenselves needing no help from him. But Rome's power is that of the Pharisees, to plot and conspire against others, and they devised ways to remove them such men from their self declared domains.

What do you see when you review the history of the Roman Catholic church? The way of Jesus? Or the way of the Pharisees?

The answer is ridiculously plain to honest hearts.

Jesus made it absurdly clear how to distinguish between the false prophets such as the Pharisees, and those who walk by truth.

"You will know them by their fruits."
-Jesus
 
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Arch Stanton said:
The fact that Christ established ONE Church -- His Catholic Church! Pretty simple stuff.... let me know the history of your community dating back to the first century
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The history of my "community" is all those who walked according to the Spirit of God and not the ways of wicked men like your leaders who lie and proclaimed themselves to be Christ's church, and as such practice the way of wickedness, the way of fools.

Jesus himself never went around proclaiming himself to be the Christ. And that's why they kept asking him if he believed himself to be the Christ. Those who actually know Jesus actually noticed that he did no such as self proclaiming as Rome does.

"If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing" - Jesus

But what does Rome do? What Jesus did not and would not. Rome's glorifying itself as the body of Christ means nothing.
 
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Arch Stanton said:
The fact that Christ established ONE Church -- His Catholic Church! Pretty simple stuff.... let me know the history of your community dating back to the first century
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No Jesus established one way and it does not include your institution. We know this for a start because for centuries your institution has harmed the sheep. That alone shows it does NOT follow the good shepherd. Our beliefs go back to the way which your institution does not follow their teachings at all. If it did it would follow 1 Cor 5:11 and remove most of its leaders. It does not follow the way's requirements for leaders. It does not follow so many of the doctrines of the way. In Revelation there were 7 churches not one.

Your institution follows the Roman Emperors. It persecuted others, tortured, murdered others just like the Roman Emperors.
 
pilgrim said:
Please cite the sources you used for your "historical facts".
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So what you are saying is that you are completely ignorant of your own history and it needs to be supplied to you?

How about we start with this heretic?

3. We, therefore, say these wicked men, can also be the sons of God even as He is.. For it is written, I have nourished and brought up children. But when what follows was objected to them, and they have rebelled against me, which indeed is not applicable to the nature of the Saviour, who is of an immutable nature; they, throwing off all religious reverence, say that God, since He foreknew and had foreseen that His Son would not rebel against Him, chose Him from all. For He did not choose Him as having by nature anything specially beyond His other sons, for no one is by nature a son of God, as they say; neither as having any peculiar property of His own; but God chose Him who was of a mutable nature, on account of the carefulness of His manners and His practice, which in no way turned to that which is evil; so that, if Paul and Peter had striven for this, there would have been no difference between their sonship and His. And to confirm this insane doctrine, playing with Holy Scripture, they bring forward what is said in the Psalms respecting Christ: You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows,
Alexander

Note the highlighted comment. This man who writes these things is confessing that he himself is not a born of God son of God.

Men believed they could be God's own sons born of Him just as Jesus taught? And they are "wicked" for doing so? Shall we banish such men and remove them from the equation as this heretic advocated?

Here is the root of the wickedness of your church.
 
Our Lord's God said:
So what you are saying is that you are completely ignorant of your own history and it needs to be supplied to you?

How about we start with this heretic?

3. We, therefore, say these wicked men, can also be the sons of God even as He is.. For it is written, I have nourished and brought up children. But when what follows was objected to them, and they have rebelled against me, which indeed is not applicable to the nature of the Saviour, who is of an immutable nature; they, throwing off all religious reverence, say that God, since He foreknew and had foreseen that His Son would not rebel against Him, chose Him from all. For He did not choose Him as having by nature anything specially beyond His other sons, for no one is by nature a son of God, as they say; neither as having any peculiar property of His own; but God chose Him who was of a mutable nature, on account of the carefulness of His manners and His practice, which in no way turned to that which is evil; so that, if Paul and Peter had striven for this, there would have been no difference between their sonship and His. And to confirm this insane doctrine, playing with Holy Scripture, they bring forward what is said in the Psalms respecting Christ: You love righteousness, and hate wickedness: therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows,
Alexander

Note the highlighted comment. This man who writes these things is confessing that he himself is not a born of God son of God.

Men believed they could be God's own sons born of Him just as Jesus taught? And they are "wicked" for doing so? Shall we banish such men and remove them from the equation as this heretic advocated?

Here is the root of the wickedness of your church.
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Cite your source please.
 
pilgrim said:
How is that a source for your OP?
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So then you need your history repeated to you so you can have the opportunity deny the historical facts?

I have it right don't I?

Jesus doesn't do crusades.
Jesus doesn't endorse wars.
Jesus doesn't do inquisitions.
Jesus doesn't seek ways to persecute his opponents.
Jesus doesn't stand idly by and watch a Jewish genocide.
Jesus doesn't do plotting and conspiring against his enemies.
And finally, Jesus doesn't lie and claim, "I didn't do it."
Jesus doesn't hide pedophiles among his flock.
And so on. The list is ridiculously long.

But Rome does and has and the facts of history are easily known to those who actually have a brain. To hear Catholics pretend otherwise is sickening to those who know the facts. But I know you will because dogs return to their own vomit.
 
Our Lord's God said:
Jesus taught us that if they hated him and persecuted him they will do the very same thing to those who follow him.

If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A slave is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for my name’s sake, because they do not know the One who sent Me. John 15

Jesus came along preaching and teaching things which the religious leaders did not like. So they tried to discredit him but that didn't work. They just could not refute him and they were starting to look bad before the people when he kept shooting them down when they attempted to discredit him. And these religious teachers became very concerned about this problem since people were following Jesus rather than them.

So the Pharisees said to one another, “You see that you are not doing any good; look, the world has gone after Him.”

Well now they didn't like that too much. They wanted all the people to follow THEM (just like Rome does).

The Pharisee's Solution: Remove Jesus from the equation. Then he won't be a problem anymore.

And the way of the Pharisees has always been the way of the Roman Catholic Church. History shows us that for centuries Rome has adopted the same spirit of lawlessness as the Pharisees. They plot and conspire and plot and conspire. When a man rose up to speak that which Rome did not like, they conspired to have him removed from the equation by one means or another. They did this because they did not know Jesus or his Father.

Jesus did not do such things to anyone. He knew that the true power was in simply doing the will of God and that is all he had to do and the heretics would handily hang thenselves needing no help from him. But Rome's power is that of the Pharisees, to plot and conspire against others, and they devised ways to remove them such men from their self declared domains.

What do you see when you review the history of the Roman Catholic church? The way of Jesus? Or the way of the Pharisees?

The answer is ridiculously plain to honest hearts.

Jesus made it absurdly clear how to distinguish between the false prophets such as the Pharisees, and those who walk by truth.

"You will know them by their fruits."
-Jesus
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Paul tells us that when we pass judgment we condemn ourselves because we do the same things.
 
dingoling. said:
Paul tells us that when we pass judgment we condemn ourselves because we do the same things.
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Is that what PETER is doing here?

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

And here?

17 These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

Now go and read 2 Peter 3:14-17 again.
 
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Our Lord's God said:
Is that what PETER is doing here?

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2 Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

And here?

17 These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18 For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19 promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”

Now go and read 2 Peter 3:14-17 again.
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I don't see Catholic Church in this passage.
 
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