leonard03782
Well-known member
Then you do not know what the Scriptures say, specifically Revelation and Daniel. There are seven years determined for the time of Jacob's trouble. Not one day less.
Jesus will return in 2030 (at the latest)
- Thread starter Eved
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C'mon, man. Every time there's a disagreement, people throw out "you don't know the Bible." It gets old. I've been a Christian for almost 50 years. I'm very familiar with the different eschatological views.The Bible does not explicitly say that the Christian church will be raptured before the 70th week commences.
Note that I am inclined to believe that we will be, but we do not know for certain.
leonard03782
Well-known member
How long someone has been a Christian does not mean that their knowledge reflects how long that they have been a Christian.
Where did I mention anything about the rapture?
That's true.
Ok, lets start there. Do you believe in a rapture for the Christian church? If so, when will it be in relation to Daniel's 70th week?
What makes you so sure Daniel's 70th week hasn't started?
leonard03782
Well-known member
Absolutely, no doubt in my mind.
It will before the 70th week.
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
From what I have been taught, it is widely held that that a treaty/agreement has to be made stronger that it was originally agreed to. This agreement is between Israel and her neighbors/ the world. The "he" in the above verse is the antichrist.
There are the Abraham Accords that have been agreed to between Israel and some of her neighbors. However, they were all implemented at different times
Revelation 6:
1 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
For the sake of argument, let's say that the 70th week has started. Where are we?
Same here.
That’s a good point. There is no covenant yet.
.
Exceedingly early.
Please allow me to revise my earlier statement. When you said this:
I mistakenly assumed you were talking about the rapture. The rapture could occur at any time. Christ will return and we’ll meet him in the air. Once we’re gone, the trib might start right away, or it might not. Christ will return TO earth at the end of the trib. So, if I’m understanding you, when you said the earliest Christ can return is seven years from today, you were talking about his return TO earth, and not the rapture.
Are we on the same page?
leonard03782
Well-known member
Yes. We are on the same page. I apologize for any misunderstanding. I kinda figured that you were referring to the Gospels when you suggested that Jesus can return at any time.Same here.
That’s a good point. There is no covenant yet.
.
Exceedingly early.
Please allow me to revise my earlier statement. When you said this:
I mistakenly assumed you were talking about the rapture. The rapture could occur at any time. Christ will return and we’ll meet him in the air. Once we’re gone, the trib might start right away, or it might not. Christ will return TO earth at the end of the trib. So, if I’m understanding you, when you said the earliest Christ can return is seven years from today, you were talking about his return TO earth, and not the rapture.
Are we on the same page?
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
You are like the pot calling the Kettle black here, for you don't know the scriptures yourself, otherwise you would not believe in your fallacious gap theory nor in your non Biblical 7 year tribulation false doctrine.
For the last week of Daniels 70 weeks has been already fulfilled by Christ and which began with the start of his ministery 3 1/2 years before his death and then picking back up at his resurrection and 3 1/2 years after it and ending with Paul's conversion and appointment by God to replace Judas Iscariot.
Furthermore, Revelation 13 reveals that the beast is only given 3 1/2 years and not a full 7 years like you falsely believe and teach about it.
By the way, if you are comparing Daniel 9:27 with the sacrifices and offerings being fullfilled with those passage in Daniel 8 and 11 and 12 that speak of the daily or perpetual being taken away, that is a serious error, for actually the Hebrew word for "sacrifice" is not even used in those passages because that isn't what is removed.
Therefore they are a far cry from their intended meaning from Daniel 9:27 where the word "sacrifices" is used and also fulfilled or brought into a rest, for the Hebrew word is "Shabboth" and which means they were fulfilled in Christ Jesus.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Nope - didn't bother with it. Camping published a sequel too, and then died before he could make MORE of a fool of himself. Eschatology is just a religious word for "Rank Speculation". No need to bother with it.
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
You do realize I would hope that David Jeremiah is now saying that the rapture will take place in 2024 this very year, he has a video out about this that is posted on youtube.
This is just how seriously deceived the people in your churches have become and it is going to get much worse also as the coming of Christ gets even nearer, for before he comes, he is going to expose the false churches for what they truly are and then the members will have to make a final decision and after they do, then Jesus will come and put an end to this antrichrist nonsense forever.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
It was tongue-in-cheek. I remember seeing a billboard for Camping saying the rapture was happening on some date (I don't remember which date, October something 2012 I think) and although I had no clue who Camping was I knew he was a false teacher. His hubris was only outclassed by his Biblical ignorance. Concerning eschatology, would you agree reading and studying prophecy and Revelation, concerning the end of things, is a good thing? I'm curious because, from your conclusion above you seem to be disparaging all of it, outright. As for me I'm fine with eschatological study, reading amd believing in that blessed hope. What I take issue with, though, is date setting. Jesus was clear that no one knows the day or the hour but the Father alone. Some foolishly think "day or hour, well then we can know the week, month and year". That's where earnest people make their first mistake and run down that rabbit hole.
JohnDeVitoOfOld
Well-known member
Seems to me that what he is saying is that if the tribulation were to start today that Jesus would come seven years later. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the comment was more tongue in cheek than anything else.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
I WOULDN'T WASTE ANY TIME ON IT, SINCE IT'S ALL MEANINGLESS. Jesus will be back when it's time, and "Eschatologists" don't have a clue, and do nothing but muddy the waters.
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
I respect that and that's your privilege. Studying the end times, for me, is not a waste of time, my waters aren't muddy and there's great meaning in watching for His return.
Everyone who has predicted His return have failed. Even the apostles thought they were in the last days.
1 Peter 4
7 Now the end of all things is near.
1 John 2:18
Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour.
But the whole chapter of Peter is about how we are to live. This is the important thing one should understand about end times. In fact, every day should be lived as if today we will meet Jesus, no one know when their last day will be.
leonard03782
Well-known member
Ol' Bob probably got burned by the 88 reasons book and wants nothing else to do with the subject.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Which will happen ON SCHEDULE regardless of man's "theology".
Lastdaysbeliever
Well-known member
As I stated, I respect that and that's your privilege. Please, however, don't begin to suspect my motivations for disagreeing with you and my position on studying the end of times. I would never try to dissuade you from following your conscience.