Keeping the commandments

dberrie2020

Super Member
But you don't become a saved, born again person by keeping the commandments.

There is a hard connect between keeping the commandments and eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints agree with the testimony of the scriptures.
 
There is a hard connect between keeping the commandments and eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints agree with the testimony of the scriptures.

Would anyone like to engage this point? Isn't the very point of the critic's theology here---there are no works involved in obtaining eternal life?

How do they explain the very theology The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--and the Biblical text--claims is true--as found in the scriptures above?
 

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Mormons do not fulfill either commandment. They love Joseph Smith far more than Jesus Christ, and if you want proof simply review the posts Mormons create on CARM. They have made God into an exalted human being and say that they will become "gods themselves as all gods before them have done (see Smith's King Follet Discourse and Sermon on the Plurality of gods - available from UTLM).

And Mormons despise not only the Christian faith, calling our Creeds an "abomination," but call Christians who profess those Creeds "corrupt." Do they call their cult corrupt based on the many very questionable acts that false cult has done? How about polygamy, and Smith sleeping with the wives of other Mormon men?
 
Mormons do not fulfill either commandment.
LOL. More obvious nonsense. It's almost universally known that we do better at both that our critics do.
They love Joseph Smith far more than Jesus Christ, and if you want proof simply review the posts Mormons create on CARM.
Oh. Please do review the posts on this site. Most of what you'll find about Joseph Smith are posted by our critics. Whether they are true or not is a matter of conjecture.

Our presence here is in defense of our beliefs and correcting misconceptions that our critics claim are part of our religion.
They have made God into an exalted human being
That's not very hard to believe since Jesus is an exalted human being. I think most Christians believe Jesus is God.

I know at least one of you is going to argue that you all mean the Father and not Jesus, but isn't there only one God? It seems to be convenient for you all to argue based on a multiplicity of Gods when it suites you. But no matter what you argue on this point, still; Jesus Christ IS and exalted human being and He was resurrected in the form of a human being that could eat and drink, be touched, both heard and seen. So, won't our resurrection be like his? Will we not be human beings in the resurrection?

and say that they will become "gods themselves as all gods before them have done
And what way is that? Didn't Jesus become human through birth just like all other humans did? Did Jesus grow up facing temptations and pains just as all other humans have? Didn't Jesus die, just as all other humans have? If that's the path Jesus took, then we are on that same path, are we not? The difference, of course, is that Jesus wasn't born under the curse of Adam. He had life within himself. But it was the same path. Through his own merit, and no one else's, Jesus overcame the world and earned his exaltation. All authority was given him in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18). We obviously can't do that. We need His help, nevertheless the path is the same. But with God all things are possible (Matt 19:26). Through his atonement our sins, though they be scarlet they can be made white as snow (Isa 1:18). If they are white as snow did they ever exist? Our critics insist that we must continue to carry the taint of sin forever. We can never be like God we can never do what God does and they say this in direct denial of the scriptures, that all things are possible with God. But, please note, Jesus suffered sin. He was human. He now sits enthroned in yonder heavens. We are all in that same exact path (Rev 3:21) that through Christ we can be like him (1 John 3:2), joint-heirs in the kingdom of God (Rom 8:17).

It's all biblical. Our critics,.true to their nature, deny the power of God and insist that man remains separate from the gods. That's the non-biblical route.
calling our Creeds an "abomination,"
Because, not only are the false,.they aren't even biblical.
but call Christians who profess those Creeds "corrupt."
False. No one has made any such claim. That is your baseless assumption. The creeds are corrupt. People who know better but teach the creeds are corrupt by definition (they teach things they know aren't true) but how are we to know what they know. Realistically, that what our critics do, but it's not something we do.
Do they call their cult corrupt based on the many very questionable acts that false cult has done?
Questionable acts? Based on what? Your opinion? LOL. Did you question Abraham with Hagar? Jacob with his four wives? Moses with his wives? Only a secular Christian would question God's commands.
How about polygamy
Not an issue.
Smith sleeping with the wives of other Mormon men
Never happened.
 
LOL. More obvious nonsense. It's almost universally known that we do better at both that our critics do.

Oh. Please do review the posts on this site. Most of what you'll find about Joseph Smith are posted by our critics. Whether they are true or not is a matter of conjecture.

Our presence here is in defense of our beliefs and correcting misconceptions that our critics claim are part of our religion.

That's not very hard to believe since Jesus is an exalted human being. I think most Christians believe Jesus is God.

I know at least one of you is going to argue that you all mean the Father and not Jesus, but isn't there only one God? It seems to be convenient for you all to argue based on a multiplicity of Gods when it suites you. But no matter what you argue on this point, still; Jesus Christ IS and exalted human being and He was resurrected in the form of a human being that could eat and drink, be touched, both heard and seen. So, won't our resurrection be like his? Will we not be human beings in the resurrection?
No, we won’t be human beings after the resurrection. We will be changed into immortal beings. Not the same thing.

And what way is that? Didn't Jesus become human through birth just like all other humans did? Did Jesus grow up facing temptations and pains just as all other humans have? Didn't Jesus die, just as all other humans have? If that's the path Jesus took, then we are on that same path, are we not? The difference, of course, is that Jesus wasn't born under the curse of Adam. He had life within himself. But it was the same path. Through his own merit, and no one else's, Jesus overcame the world and earned his exaltation. All authority was given him in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18). We obviously can't do that. We need His help, nevertheless the path is the same. But with God all things are possible (Matt 19:26). Through his atonement our sins, though they be scarlet they can be made white as snow (Isa 1:18). If they are white as snow did they ever exist? Our critics insist that we must continue to carry the taint of sin forever. We can never be like God we can never do what God does and they say this in direct denial of the scriptures, that all things are possible with God. But, please note, Jesus suffered sin. He was human. He now sits enthroned in yonder heavens. We are all in that same exact path (Rev 3:21) that through Christ we can be like him (1 John 3:2), joint-heirs in the kingdom of God (Rom 8:17).
Jesus was always God. You know, healing the sick, raising the dead, walking on water, multiplying fish, etc. We are not. We are merely humans. Because of Him, we can be forgiven and have eternal life. And in that way, we can become like Him, immortal. And live in God’s family/kingdom.

Why is that not enough for you, that you want His power and glory too.

It's all biblical. Our critics,.true to their nature, deny the power of God and insist that man remains separate from the gods. That's the non-biblical route.

Because, not only are the false,.they aren't even biblical.

False. No one has made any such claim. That is your baseless assumption. The creeds are corrupt. People who know better but teach the creeds are corrupt by definition (they teach things they know aren't true) but how are we to know what they know. Realistically, that what our critics do, but it's not something we do.

Questionable acts? Based on what? Your opinion? LOL. Did you question Abraham with Hagar? Jacob with his four wives? Moses with his wives? Only a secular Christian would question God's commands.

Not an issue.

Never happened.
Yes, it did happen. According to the women Smith slept with. And witnesses who let him share beds in their homes with those women. One of the wives said she didn’t know which of her husbands was the father of her child. Another wife said in a BYU talk that she knew he had children with his other wives, but they had been sent away.

You deny what you don’t want to believe because it doesn’t fit the image you want to portray of mormonism.
 
There is a hard connect between keeping the commandments and eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I can understand why Mormons are unable to correctly understand teh above passage. Part of it is because (as usual) you rip it out of context (since it refutes your false theology).

Why didn't you quote the ENTIRE account?:

Matt. 19:20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

So according to this passage, even keeping the commandments isn't sufficient to have eternal life. One must also take a vow of poverty (something I don't remember reading in the Mosaic Law). Further, if you think a vow of poverty is a requirement for salvation, then welcome to Roman Catholicism!


But here is the correct understanding of Jesus' teaching. What is the purpose of the Law? Paul tells us:

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

So Paul is basically teaching that the Law with its commandments doesn't give us salvation, it simply confirms our sin. We are INCAPABLE of keeping the Law, and so be saved by it.

Paul clarifies elsewhere:

Gal. 3:24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

So the purpose of the Law is two-fold:

1) to convict us of our sin;​
2) to lead us to Christ.​

So did Jesus bring the Law to the rich young ruler with the expectation that he would keep it? Of course not! And in fact, the ruler actually believed he was keeping the law, when he wasn't. The purpose of the law is to try to keep it, and to fail and fail and continue failing, until you reach desperation, and are forced to appeal to God for mercy (in Christ). The RYR hadn't yet reached that point, so Christ simply kept pointing him to the Law.

Another LDS poster here used to love to quote C.S. Lewis' "Scissors" quote. And that quote comes from one of two chapters on "Faith" in Lewis' book, "Mere Christianity". Lewis (although an Anglican) understood the Law very well. And Mormons would do well to read both those chapters in their entirety.

Here are some excerpts:

"I am trying to talk about Faith in the second sense, the higher sense. I said last week that the question of Faith in this sense arises after a man has tried his level best to practise the Christian virtues, and found that he fails, and seen that even if he could he would only be giving back to God what was already God's own. In other words, he discovers his bankruptcy."​
[...]​
"He is misunderstanding what he is and what God is. And he cannot get into the right relation until he has discovered the fact of our bankruptcy."​
[...]​
"Now we cannot, in that sense, discover our failure to keep God's law except by trying our very hardest (and then failing).Unless we really try, whatever we say there will always be at the back of our minds the idea that if we try harder next time we shall succeed in being completely good. Thus, in one sense, the road back to God is a road of moral effort, of trying harder and harder. But in another sense it is not trying that is ever going to bring us home. All this trying leads up to the vital moment at which you turn to God and say, "You must do this. I can't."​
-- Lewis, C. S.. Mere Christianity . CrossReach Publications. Kindle Edition.​

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints agree with the testimony of the scriptures.

No, it doesn't.
The LDS church theology contradicts Isa. 64:6, Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, Rom. 11:5-6, etc. etc. etc.
 
I can understand why Mormons are unable to correctly understand teh above passage. Part of it is because (as usual) you rip it out of context (since it refutes your false theology).

What are you claiming there is about Matthew19:16-19--which refutes LDS theology?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

It certainly refutes the theology the critics pawn here.

Why didn't you quote the ENTIRE account?:

Matt. 19:20 The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?” 21 Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

How does that change what the Savior testified to here?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Are you claiming that isn't true?

So according to this passage, even keeping the commandments isn't sufficient to have eternal life.

My claim was a "hard connect" between keeping the commandments and eternal life, according to the scriptures. That was the testimony of the Savior--and the apostles:

Revelation 22:14--King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

How do you fit your theology into that testimony? Fits the LDS theology well.
 

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Mormons do not fulfill either commandment.

How does what the "Mormons" do--or don't do--have anything to do with whether the testimony of the Savior is true or not?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
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