Mother Mary

It was a women whom Satan tempted that led to the fall of mankind, so it was appropriate that it was through a women that God used to redeem mankind and destroy the works of Satan. God used the most humblest of creatures to defeat the most proud.

God has given us Mary as our mother, and he has placed Mary in a position to help us in our battle against the spiritual forces of darkness. Thank God for giving us Mary as our mother.
God would not need to replace the original eve. She exists and as a soul can be restored in Christ.

Satan damaging His creation does not mean God goes to a different creation as a solution. He restores the original.

If you sin God can save you, not a substitute of you.
 
Bonnie said:
No, but your church is, with the HS.
Since the Holy Spirit is the soul of our Church, the life of our Church, the guardian of our Church, I would say---not.
no, it certainly is none of those. your 'church' does not have the HS in it or the guidance of the HS. It teaches contrary to the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit does not lie or contradict scripture. the rcc does both.

search scripture for teachings about the HS.
 
Well...somebody forgot to tell Jesus and the Gospel writers. Ever read Matthew 11:28-29? Here it is.

Matt 11:28-29
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
NKJV

Here is John 14:6.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV


Mary was left out of the equations. When was she inserted between Jesus and us? Please give your scriptural citation. When you can't, give us your CCC to see how your church arrived at this bit of nonsense.
God can only be known by a voluntary revelation by the Son and Spirit of God. (Matt. 11:27).

I love how God's Word points out so vividly that Jesus Himself said He came to call sinners to repentance, and that it is not those who are whole who need a physician, but those who are sick. It seems that it can't be reiterated enough that salvation is offered exclusively to people who sense the guilt of their sins - those who labor and are heavy laden under the weight of sin. (Matt. 11: 28-30).
 
romish unwisely inquires:
When you pray for me to Jesus Christ, aren't you exercising a form of mediation? If you can do that, why can't Mary?
"In the second place, God choose to mediate His presence in the world through Mary" - (and just where is that choice God made found in the Scriptures) romish?

Then following that absurd false statement about Mary, romish hopefully asks: "If that isn't a form of mediation either, what is?"

Moreover, romish still continues to state, - "For the same reason that Christians believe that any believer can mediate between us and Christ. If you can do this, why can't Mary and the saints? Just because there is no verse of Scripture that formally and explicitly teaches that.

"My Father has given me all things. No knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son wants to reveal him." Matt. 11: 27
Jesus said that "no one knows the Son except the Father" . . .then apparently Mary does not know the Son either, - because only the Father knows the Son. Jesus also tells us that "no one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son wants to reveal him." Matt. 11:27 No mention at all about Mary knowing the Son or His Father! How can she mediate for them as the Roman Catholic Church falsely proclaims, when she doesn't even know them, according to the infallible Word of God? The RCC makes up some really absurd, even blasphemous teachings to mislead their flock.
 
Since the Holy Spirit is the soul of our Church, the life of our Church, the guardian of our Church, I would say---not.
The HS is not in your church. If He were, your church would not have taught so many errors over tbe centuries, and refused to listen to such reformers as Hus and Luther. Your church would not have swept the pedophile priest problem under the rug for so long, before finally starting to deal with it. Was Francis led by the HS when he allowed that Pachamama debacle at the Vatican, in late 2019? Was JPII led by the HS when he kissed tbe Qu'ran?
 
The HS is not in your church. If He were, your church would not have taught so many errors over the centuries, and refused to listen to such reformers as Hus and Luther.
I will grant that Luther's intentions started out good. I can't speak to Hus. Luther was right to go after the moral corruption in the Church. But Luther couldn't stop there. He just had to go after doctrine.

Had Luther retained Communion with the Church, for all we know he might have eventually been canonized like many of the great Catholic reformation saints. His pride unfortunately got the better of him and he broke communion with the Church founding his own sect. It was all down hill from there. Then Calvin and Knox came along and founded their own sect, the Wesley's founded there own sect, Henry VIII his own sect, Menno Simons his own sect, and here we are today.
Your church would not have swept the pedophile priest problem under the rug for so long, before finally starting to deal with it.
Here we go. What conversation about one's personal hang-ups with Catholicism would be complete without the mandatory mention of the scandal? As if sin and the need for redemption is news...
Was Francis led by the HS when he allowed that Pachamama debacle at the Vatican, in late 2019?
No.
Was JPII led by the HS when he kissed the Qu'ran?
No.
 
Jesus said that "no one knows the Son except the Father" . . .then apparently Mary does not know the Son either, -
Um, yeah, here is the full verse: “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
because only the Father knows the Son. Jesus also tells us that "no one knows the Father except the Son, and those to whom the Son wants to reveal him." Matt. 11:27 No mention at all about Mary knowing the Son or His Father! How can she mediate for them as the Roman Catholic Church falsely proclaims, when she doesn't even know them, according to the infallible Word of God? The RCC makes up some really absurd, even blasphemous teachings to mislead their flock.
The Son reveals the Father to all believers. Thus, Mary knows the Father like all believers.
 
I will grant that Luther's intentions started out good. I can't speak to Hus. Luther was right to go after the moral corruption in the Church. But Luther couldn't stop there. He just had to go after doctrine.

Because Rome's doctrines, embodied in indulgences, was just as corrupt and false as its leaders. Luther was entirely correct to go after those, after finding the truth in Romans. Did Paul teach falsely in that epistle?
Had Luther retained Communion with the Church, for all we know he might have eventually been canonized like many of the great Catholic reformation saints. His pride unfortunately got the better of him and he broke communion with the Church founding his own sect.

Pride, shmide. His so-called pride had zero to do with his breaking from your church! That is another Catholic revisionist history. Your church excommunicated him. Remember? Because he refused to recant the truths he found in the pages of God's actual holy word, the Bible. He put his life in jeopardy doing so, and well knew it. But he also knew it is better to obey God than man--and he did. He did not and could not reject the wonderful truth of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and not on account of any works we may do, that he rediscovered within the pages of the Bible...truths your church had buried under a ton of man-made doctrines for centuries.
It was all down hill from there. Then Calvin and Knox came along and founded their own sect, the Wesley's founded there own sect, Henry VIII his own sect, Menno Simons his own sect, and here we are today.
And Rome still teaches gross errors, including indulgences. Didn't learn much, did it? As for the others, they are off topic for this board.
Here we go. What conversation about one's personal hang-ups with Catholicism would be complete without the mandatory mention of the scandal? As if sin and the need for redemption is news...

Sorry, but it is relevant. The abuse had been going on for decades, if not centuries. As did cover-ups, in more modern times.

Good.
Good. There is hope for Catholics yet!
 
Um, yeah, here is the full verse: “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

The Son reveals the Father to all believers. Thus, Mary knows the Father like all believers.
Nothing is different romish. As I said in the "full verse" which I quoted word-for-word in my post, and reads exactly the same as yours does in your response - show me where in that "full verse" it says one word about the Son choosing Mary to reveal Himself or to reveal the Father to her.
What kind of apologetic, if it is not to share the autonomy of unbelieving thought, can be successful in bringing heavily indoctrinated Roman Catholics to an understanding of the truth? God can only be known by a voluntary revelation by the Son and Spirit of God as is revealed in Matt. 11:27 and also in 1 Cor. 2:10; together romish, these two New Testament verses deal with man's ethical hostility to God's revelation and enables man to have a saving knowledge of his Creator. Thus, romish, contrary to what you freely have chosen to believe, the Bible is infallible, and much to your dismay, does NOT say that "Mary knows the Father like all believers."
 
Because Rome's doctrines, embodied in indulgences, was just as corrupt and false as its leaders. Luther was entirely correct to go after those, after finding the truth in Romans. Did Paul teach falsely in that epistle?


Pride, shmide. His so-called pride had zero to do with his breaking from your church! That is another Catholic revisionist history. Your church excommunicated him. Remember? Because he refused to recant the truths he found in the pages of God's actual holy word, the Bible. He put his life in jeopardy doing so, and well knew it. But he also knew it is better to obey God than man--and he did. He did not and could not reject the wonderful truth of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and not on account of any works we may do, that he rediscovered within the pages of the Bible...truths your church had buried under a ton of man-made doctrines for centuries.

And Rome still teaches gross errors, including indulgences. Didn't learn much, did it? As for the others, they are off topic for this board.


Sorry, but it is relevant. The abuse had been going on for decades, if not centuries. As did cover-ups, in more modern times.


Good.

Good. There is hope for Catholics yet!
The so called, "truths" wasn't always the actual words of scripture but Luther's interpretation of scripture. So scripture alone isn't really scripture alone.
 
The so called, "truths" wasn't always the actual words of scripture ............ So scripture alone isn't really scripture alone.
I forgot.....YOU....need some self proclaimed guy in a dress, who claims God gave him un-Bibilical powers to speak inerrantly, to TELL you what Scripture means! ................."I speak for God on Earth! How do you know I speak for God on Earth? Why....because I said so!" ............ Don't you realize how truly silly, and gullible RCs sound?
 
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Because Rome's doctrines, embodied in indulgences, was just as corrupt and false as its leaders.
You are conflating doctrine with practice. What was corrupt was the PRACTICE. The doctrine is fine. It was the PRACTICE that needed to be reformed. Luther wanted to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The Body of Christ, Bonnie, is a team. There is no I in team. Thus, the idea that we can benefit from the actions of someone else in the team is quite in keeping with the nature of the Church as the Body of Christ. And yes---everything that the Church is, in the ultimate sense, depends upon and comes from Christ. The question has never been WHETHER everything, including salvation depends upon and flows from Christ, but HOW it works and flows from Christ.

Protestants and Catholics do not disagree that Salvation comes from Christ alone through Grace alone. The disagreement is on whether Grace is operative in works. For Catholics, because works are done in Faith, they are products of Faith, and thus, meritorious. When God sees our Faith, He sees Christ. When God sees works done in Faith, He sees on and the same Christ. Because God sees Christ in our works, our works merit salvation. Christ produces those works through Faith, so how can they be anything BUT meritorious?
Luther was entirely correct to go after those, after finding the truth in Romans. Did Paul teach falsely in that epistle?
Of course Paul did not teach falsely in the epistle of the Romans. It was Luther who taught falsely and Luther who projected in to the epistle his unique doctrine of Faith alone.
Pride, shmide. His so-called pride had zero to do with his breaking from your church!
It had EVERYTHING to do with it. Luther thought he knew better than everyone else. Luther thought no one knew anything but him and those who agreed with him.
That is another Catholic revisionist history. Your church excommunicated him. Remember?
Yeah---when it had no choice!
Because he refused to recant the truths he found in the pages of God's actual holy word, the Bible.
Talk about revisionist history....

Luther refused to recant his errors. He refused to recant the truths he CLAIMED to find in the pages of Scripture and was PROJECTING on the pages of Scripture.
He put his life in jeopardy doing so, and well knew it. But he also knew it is better to obey God than man--and he did.
Luther obeyed himself, Bonnie. Luther made himself God.
He did not and could not reject the wonderful truth of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, and not on account of any works we may do, that he rediscovered within the pages of the Bible...truths your church had buried under a ton of man-made doctrines for centuries.
Yes, I know that Luther believed that works have no role in salvation, Bonnie. What is more, I know that Luther thinks the Bible teaches that and that modern Lutherans believe this.
And Rome still teaches gross errors, including indulgences. Didn't learn much, did it?
Lutherans are the ones teaching gross error, Bonnie. And the ELCA? Don't even get me started on that. Talk about errors! At least your sect of Lutheranism believes in the authority of Scripture!
Sorry, but it is relevant. The abuse had been going on for decades, if not centuries. As did cover-ups, in more modern times.
Yeah--the funny thing is--most people only seem to be concerned about child abuse and cover-ups when it involves a priest and the RCC.

In other words--I grant when it comes to protecting children, the bishops did not do their jobs, they dropped the ball, they do not get it, etc. I grant that what happened is horrible. I am not justifying that. There is no justification for that.

What I am suggesting is that the reason this seems to only be a Catholic problem--is becasue the media only really pays attention to these things when the RCC is involved. We are the ones under the microscope. If the media turned their microscope elsewhere, I am sure they would find just as much corruption in other churches, schools, organizations, etc.
 
I forgot.....YOU....need some self proclaimed guy in a dress, who claims God gave him un-Bibilical powers to speak inerrantly, to TELL you what Scripture means!
Fine.

YOU need some self-proclaimed guy in a suit who claims to know the Bible and claims God ordained him to teach the Scriptures to tell you what the Scriptures mean. What is more, you need some self-proclaimed people calling themselves "trustees" or "elders" to supervise and boss around the minister based on their whims and that of the congregation who hire and fire him based on those whims.
................."I speak for God on Earth! How do you know I speak for God on Earth? Why....because I said so!" ............ Don't you realize how truly silly, and gullible RCs sound?
How is our system any different than yours in this respect, save the guy saying "becasue I said so" wears a suit, not a "dress?"
 
What I am suggesting is that the reason this seems to only be a Catholic problem--is becasue the media only really pays attention to these things when the RCC is involved. We are the ones under the microscope. If the media turned their microscope elsewhere, I am sure they would find just as much corruption in other churches, schools, organizations, etc.
I fully acknowledge that child molestation has occurred in other churches besides the RCC. HOWEVER, I don't know of ANY church, other than the RCC, that has kept it hidden, allowed it to continue with NO CONSEQUENCES for the offenders, and simply reassigned the molesters to go and do it again!
 
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