I'm assuming, well...hoping, you actually read the definition. Gates of hell are directly translated into every single translation I have available to me that I read regularly in French, Swedish and English. Idioms cannot be directly translated...You're saying "gates of hell" is a metaphor for something that does not mean gates, and do not serve the purpose of gates to keep interlopers out and prisoners in.
Why do you do this? I never said "metaphor." And an idiom and a metaphor are different, not interchangeable.
"Physical gate"? Did I say physical gate?
Yeah, just now when you said "serve the purpose of gates to keep interlopers out and prisoners in."
Trying to remember what Paul taught me:
You never knew Paul. You only know you, who is badly interpreting the words of Paul.
"The weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty through God to the tearing down of strongholds..." Let me think...weapons...Weapons...Physical weapons? No...Real weapons? Of course they're mighty through a real God.
What is the antithesis of carnal? God says our weapons are not carnal. You know what? They are spiritual.
But you twist the meaning of "real" so that you can apply a quote from Corinthians to what Jesus said here. The Gates of Hell -- i.e.: the powers of death -- shall not overcome the church. Why? Because we have been given weapons of warfare? Because we have been given the armor of God? No. That's for our battles, for our defense. Jesus already said that He will build the church and He will protect it from being overpowered.
So...strongholds? Physical strongholds? Nope...We are "casting down imaginations and any high thing that exalts itself above the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought unto the obedience of Christ.
Strongholds. Strongholds hold people captive With gates. With gates that are not seen but very real. Strongholds that cannot prevail against the church. Not an idiom, but a spiritual REALITY. Do you need chapter and verse? I can get them for you.
You've created a great teaching sermon for our use of our weapons of warfare. Albeit it does not give you license to change sentence structures that the Lord wrote.
Yeah...no. Gates keep captives captive. The Word sets free the captive.
Don't care about your illogical interpretation. The sentence structure of what Jesus said is still intact: The gates [...] shall not overpower....
The seventy returned rejoicing that even the demons were obedient to them in Jesus' name. And in response Jesus said, "I saw satan fall like lightning from heaven..." People teach that as a history lesson from before the dawn of time. It wasn't. It was why Jesus sent the seventy into the lands about which satan had said, "I can give you these lands because they were given to me." Jesus foresaw the day where his dominion could not prevail and where the gates were flung open and the hostages freed. He foresaw this day. Like lightning from heaven...that's an idiom for "in the blink of an eye." It's good to know what idioms are.
So Satan is not behind your gates?? He's out and about in the world. Sin and death are yet to be put away. They are not behind gates.
Yet, Jesus was not speaking of gates. He was speaking of the power of death. And he said the power of death will not overpower the church.
Ah, but here with the seventy, you give a good reason to keep our weapons of warfare (and even our armor of God, as I injected) at hand and understood.
Oh, an your last comment: yes, you should try really hard to know what idioms are.
I'm not in competition. It's just what I do...don't really care how it influences you to judge me. It's only a background that began in high school. I've always been drawn to language. C.S. Lewis was a "philologist". A language lover. Maybe that is less arrogant? I really don't care. I love language.
I'll offer that you certainly seem to be a philologist. But a love for something does not make one an expert in that something. And I do not doubt that you have a great command over the language that you use. But you, like Lewis, have a penchant for the fanciful. You seem like my old WoF pastor who so desired to come up with a manner of explaining things like no other man had, so as to achieve his own personal corner of fame. You have a way of describing things that is not shared within Christianity, and in fact is rather an eclectic collection of thoughts from others, massaged, molded and spit shined to look so interesting in their telling, yet lose their original meaning, lose their original power.
The book Ted recommended above does a better job than you do...and he differentiates between idioms, colloquialisms and METAPHORS. You're suggesting gates is an idiom for I-don't-know-what. Gates are gates. Gates do not move.
Here you go again making gates physical (even if in the spiritual realm -- for as you rightly point out, that is just as real).
But, no, widen your reading. It is "Gates of Hades" and it means the "power of death."
By definition it puts idiom here and you there.
More gibberish.
OK...Interesting but non-sequitur.
Absolutely not a non-sequitur. You made a claim; I debunked it straight out.
These are colloquialisms. Ted's Aramaic friend mentions some actual idioms that confused him when learning English: "He was fired...", which he mistook, and "He's in a jam..." which made no sense, and "Come to my baby shower..." which he refused, not wanting to be a part of a dubious ritual. These are idioms. Not "gate".
"Gate" is not the idiom. "Gates of Hades" is.
Right back in the door. That's the dictionary meaning of the term, as I cited the definition from a dictionary. It was not from my imagination.
Do we have to devolve into this mush again. I went straight to the dictionaries, Pete, to see if any DEFINED idiom in this way. They do not. One or two may use the language problem as an example of problems with idioms, but the cross-language problem is NOT the DEFINITION of the word.
We've been there. Remember? "Overpower" is not the correct operative translation for katichuo. "Prevail" is..."have the strength to withstand" is.
Whatever.
Actually the term is "prevail against." This, according to Strong's, means to overpower, to be superior in strength, to be strong to another's detriment.
None of this changes the sentence structure. You can't understand it because you can't accept "power of death." You have to change it because your "gate" doesn't make any sense whatsoever. So you have to change what Jesus said.
Basic structure? Is that an idiom?
Basic structure is that we have a subject (Gates of Hades) doing a verb (overpower) to an object (the Church). You can't change the basic sentence structure at your whim because you have a fanciful tale to tell.
It was no ad hom. Ted and the authority he bears corroborates your claim. Why is that an ad hom? He's as right or wrong as you are.
I didn't claim any authority that Ted may have. You injected it as an ad hom. You once again were poking the bear.
Oh, wow. There must be a real bear, huh?
