Oneness of God signifies the Unity of Essence in the distinction of Persons.

aeg4971

Well-known member
Yachristians endless rudimentary Theological suppositions full of straw, suggest that I post, as would be understood by ancient non English speakers , the numerical Unity of Essence of the Three Persons in the Divine Nature. That is to say," Relation multiplies the Persons in Trinity. I know we love quoting scriptures , so I will quote just 3 scriptures as the so called Greco Roman Latins starting premise/principle.


4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

The Latin doctor communis explains as such:

" Numeric unity of nature and existence makes the three persons perfectly equal. And unity of existence means unity of wisdom, love, and power. Thus, to illustrate, the three angles of an equilateral triangle are rigorously equal. Hence, in God , to generate is no more perfect than to be generated . The eternal generation does not cause the divine nature of the Son, but only communicates it. The divine nature, uncreated in the Father, is no less uncreated in the Son, and in the Spirit. The Father is not a cause on which the Son and the Spirit would depend,. He is rather a principle, from which , without dependence, the Son and the Spirit proceed, in the numerical identity of the infinite nature communicated to them.

Again to illustrate. In the equilateral triangle we have an order, of origin indeed, but not of causality. The first angle drawn is not cause, but principle , of the second ,and the principle also, by the second of the third. Each angle is equally perfect with the others. The illustration is deficient , since you may start your triangle with any angle you choose. But illustrations, however deficient , are useful to the human intellect , which does not act unless imagination cooperates.

This perfect equality of the divine persons expresses, in supreme fashion , the life of knowledge and love . Goodness, the higher it is, the more it is self -diffusive. The Father gives His infinite goodness to the Son and, by the Son, to the Holy Spirit. Hence of the three divine persons each comprehends the other with the same infinite truth and each knows the other with the same essential act of understanding. Of their love the same must be said. Each embraces the other with infinite tenderness , since in each the act of love is identified with infinite good fully possessed and enjoyed.

The three persons, purely spiritual, are thus open to possession one by the other, being distinguished only by their mutual relations. The Father's entire personality consist in His subsistent and incommunicable relation to the Son, the ego of the Son is His relation to the Father, the ego of the Holy Spirit is His relation to the first two persons.

Thus each of the three persons, since He is what He is by His relationship to the others , is united to the others precisely by what distinguishes Him from them. An illustration: recall again the three angles in a triangle. How fertile is that fundamental principle that in God everything is identically one and the same except where we find opposition by relation!

The three divine persons , lastly are the exemplar of life of charity. Each of them speaks to the others : All that is mine is thine, all that is thine is mine. The union of souls in charity is but a reflection from the union of the divine persons: " That all may be one, as Thou, Father, in Me and I in Thee, that they also be one in Us ". As Father and Son are one by nature ,so the faithful are one by grace, which is a participation in the divine nature".

On account of the numerical unity of essence the Latin angelic doctor says," The Trinity is naturally unknowable ". St Thomas expounds the reason for this truth much more clearly than his predecessors did. By natural reason, he says , we know God only as Creator . Now God creates by His omnipotence , which is common to all three persons , as is the divine nature of which omnipotence is an attribute. Hence natural reason cannot know the distinction of persons in God , but only His one nature".

Yachristian ,Seventhday JJ Nelson. Yah will Increase and the lot ," One in the self same is communicated in the Unity of Essence of the Three Divine Persons.


...... Alan
 
The Father is not a cause on which the Son and the Spirit would depend,. He is rather a principle, from which , without dependence, the Son and the Spirit proceed,
The Father and the Son shares Spiratio".constituting a single originating Principle of the Holy Spirit.

Just to clarify your Trinitarian view...

Are any of these statements true?

A) The Spirit is a principle, from which, without dependence, the Father proceeds.

B) The Spirit is a principle, from which, without dependence, the Son proceeds.

C) The Spirit is an originating Principle of the Father.

D) The Spirit is an originating Principle of the Son.

And so that your fellow Trinitarians won’t say, Question is too complex, don’t understand the statements, etc... Please notice that I used your verbiage and only changed the names. So surely you can answer the question. ?


P.S.

John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And for those who are new to this forum, here is a summary of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
 
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" Numeric unity of nature and existence makes the three persons perfectly equal.
JUST ONE QUESTION, is this, "Numeric unity of nature and existence " is it in Cardinal or Ordinal designations?

PICJAG, 101G.
 
JUST ONE QUESTION, is this, "Numeric unity of nature and existence " is it in Cardinal or Ordinal designations?

PICJAG, 101G.
Numeric unity is absolute which signifies the fundamental principle of Divinity, and thus cardinal. Nevertheless on account of relative predication which imports a distinction in the supposita of which it is spoken , as regard the order of nature , meaning as one proceeds from another, signifies the order of procession in God , and thus in this way ordinal.


Hope that helps

....... Alan
 
JUST ONE QUESTION, is this, "Numeric unity of nature and existence " is it in Cardinal or Ordinal designations?

PICJAG, 101G.

When we say the order of procession in God ,we mean The Son Eternally proceeds therefrom (ad intra) God the Father as Begotten or Conceived Wisdom, for He is called the Word to announce the Impassability of His Birth. The Holy Spirit Eternally proceeds therefrom ( ad intra) both The Father and The Son as Spiration for He is called the Paraclete. This numerical distinction ( Three) in Hypostasis subsist SINGLY in the numeric Identity and Unity of Nature and Existence.


As it is written," God is Spirit , therefore the Latin doctor communis says," The Divine Essence exist Singly by itself, and is Individualized within itself".


........ Alan
 
When we say the order of procession in God ,we mean The Son Eternally proceeds therefrom (ad intra) God the Father as Begotten or Conceived Wisdom, for He is called the Word to announce the Impassability of His Birth. The Holy Spirit Eternally proceeds therefrom ( ad intra) both The Father and The Son as Spiration for He is called the Paraclete. This numerical distinction ( Three) in Hypostasis subsist SINGLY in the numeric Identity and Unity of Nature and Existence.


As it is written," God is Spirit , therefore the Latin doctor communis says," The Divine Essence exist Singly by itself, and is Individualized within itself".


........ Alan
You do understand that by saying a person in the godhead eternally proceeds also means they also eternally do not exist of themselves, lacking aseity.
 
Just to clarify your Trinitarian view...

Are any of these statements true?

A) The Spirit is a principle, from which, without dependence, the Father proceeds.

B) The Spirit is a principle, from which, without dependence, the Son proceeds.

C) The Spirit is an originating Principle of the Father.

D) The Spirit is an originating Principle of the Son.

And so that your fellow Trinitarians won’t say, Question is too complex, don’t understand the statements, etc... Please notice that I used your verbiage and only changed the names. So surely you can answer the question. ?


P.S.

John 4:24... God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And for those who are new to this forum, here is a summary of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.
The Holy Spirit is A Person, NOT a Principle.
 
Numeric unity is absolute which signifies the fundamental principle of Divinity, and thus cardinal.
if cardinal then it's not WITHIN, but multiple, meaning more than ONE single person. but God is a plurality ... "of" .. himself, which is CARDINAL. which shows positions, so you have two or more Gods, and not persons. and that's anti bible.

When we say the order of procession in God ,we mean The Son Eternally proceeds therefrom (ad intra) God the Father as Begotten or Conceived Wisdom, for He is called the Word to announce the Impassability of His Birth
Thanks for the reply,
First ERROR of the Day, the Spirit is never begotten, only flesh and bone and blood is BEGOTTEN, which means there was no birth of the WORD. listen, and understand, the Son of God was ... "BORN", (FLESH, BONE, and BLOOD), not the Son of man ... "Spirit". supportive scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
understand, the Son of God came out of Mary, the son of man came from Heaven.

now, scripture, did you hear that? "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:". Flesh is BORN, the Son is Given.
so, try again.


The Holy Spirit Eternally proceeds therefrom ( ad intra) both The Father and The Son as Spiration for He is called the Paraclete. This numerical distinction ( Three) in Hypostasis subsist SINGLY in the numeric Identity and Unity of Nature and Existence.
Second ERROR of day, the Holy Spirit HOLDS both titles of Father and Son. yes, the Holy Spirit is the G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) who is the Lord Jesus. Supportive scripture. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
here the term advocate is
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

so, the G3875 παράκλητος parakletos is the Lord Jesus who is the Holy Spirit. our advocate

so, we suggest you try again, also.

As it is written," God is Spirit , therefore the Latin doctor communis says," The Divine Essence exist Singly by itself, and is Individualized within itself".
Third ERROR of the Day, " The Divine Essence exist Singly by itself, and is Individualized within itself"" this is so far from the truth. DID YOU NOT READ?, Listen and Learn, God is a plurality, of, of, of, himself. listen to the definition of God, I'm using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

so who is [plural of H433] answer,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

so the singularity of God is NOT "within" himself, but "OF" himself.

this is why I asked you before, and NOW AGAIN, is your numerical
PICJAG, 101G.
 
well JG? do you know what the term advocate means in 1 John 2:1? if not look it up.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
if cardinal then it's not WITHIN, but multiple, meaning more than ONE single person. but God is a plurality ... "of" .. himself, which is CARDINAL. which shows positions, so you have two or more Gods, and not persons. and that's anti bible.


Thanks for the reply,
First ERROR of the Day, the Spirit is never begotten, only flesh and bone and blood is BEGOTTEN, which means there was no birth of the WORD. listen, and understand, the Son of God was ... "BORN", (FLESH, BONE, and BLOOD), not the Son of man ... "Spirit". supportive scripture, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."
understand, the Son of God came out of Mary, the son of man came from Heaven.

now, scripture, did you hear that? "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:". Flesh is BORN, the Son is Given.
so, try again.



Second ERROR of day, the Holy Spirit HOLDS both titles of Father and Son. yes, the Holy Spirit is the G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) who is the Lord Jesus. Supportive scripture. 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
here the term advocate is
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

so, the G3875 παράκλητος parakletos is the Lord Jesus who is the Holy Spirit. our advocate

so, we suggest you try again, also.


Third ERROR of the Day, " The Divine Essence exist Singly by itself, and is Individualized within itself"" this is so far from the truth. DID YOU NOT READ?, Listen and Learn, God is a plurality, of, of, of, himself. listen to the definition of God, I'm using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

so who is [plural of H433] answer,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

so the singularity of God is NOT "within" himself, but "OF" himself.

this is why I asked you before, and NOW AGAIN, is your numerical
PICJAG, 101G.

Lets unpack all your straw shall we. I don't know what definition you are using for cardinal but it clearly isn't the same as the one I supposed. You assert ," God is a plurality of Himself" That supposition is quite abstract and leaves a lot wanting, but in the concrete orthodox declares ,"In God what is Indeterminately signified by Plurality is signified by Trinity in a Determinate manner. Distinct Persons is not multiple gods so you refute yourself.

Next no one said the Spirit is begotten , it is the Hypostasis of the Son Begotten Immaterially without regard to this flesh these bones and this blood. Furthermore Divine conception of the Son is not taken as an act of creating , but rather an eternal Procession of the Logos/Word in God which is rightly called generation, and the Word Himself proceeding is properly called begotten and Son. And the Word was made flesh and made His dwelling among us a we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father. In ancient Christology proper, made of a woman under the law, is by definition the sending of the Son ever Born in the bosom of the Father. A body hath thou prepared for the Word Himself proceeding.

For unto us a child is born and unto us a son is given. The rest of the verse qualifies the first portion of the Son own Divine Self Sovereignty. SO your point is what exactly????

Father Son Holy Spirit are not titles but relative personal names of the Three Divine Persons. You cannot half bake assert," God is a plurality of Himself, then turn around and attempt to reproach me with myopic and rudimentary suppositions. against a Trinity of Persons.


Based on your own post your are not remotely intellectually qualified to assert I am in error'


......... Alan
 
You do understand that by saying a person in the godhead eternally proceeds also means they also eternally do not exist of themselves, lacking aseity.
You do realize that every Divine Person by Himself is that same Spirit. What belongs to a personal individuating property belongs to the Divine Essence itself , belonging to itself, hence Divine Life in itself by itself, constituting the Son and the Spirit possessing Divine Hypostasis in themselves. It follows aseity properly belongs to every procession. That is to say," He who proceeds receives divine existence from Another, but however as if He were Other from the Divine Nature. As when we say ," God is Trine, meaning that there are Three " supposita" of the Godhead. God is the same as Godhead . The 4th century Latin Boethius says," Relations multiples the Persons in Trinity. God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit. Now the relation between the Three Divine Persons is the same as the relation between God- Begetting, God- Begotten, God- Proceeding.


......... Alan
 
You do realize that every Divine Person by Himself is that same Spirit. What belongs to a personal individuating property belongs to the Divine Essence itself , belonging to itself, hence Divine Life in itself by itself, constituting the Son and the Spirit possessing Divine Hypostasis in themselves. It follows aseity properly belongs to every procession. That is to say," He who proceeds receives divine existence from Another, but however as if He were Other from the Divine Nature. As when we say ," God is Trine, meaning that there are Three " supposita" of the Godhead. God is the same as Godhead . The 4th century Latin Boethius says," Relations multiples the Persons in Trinity. God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit. Now the relation between the Three Divine Persons is the same as the relation between God- Begetting, God- Begotten, God- Proceeding.


......... Alan
You do realize that when you use terms like proceed, beggeting, procession, divine assistance, etc., you are contradicting yourself.

There is no aseity in this regardless of what the Latin devils say.
 
Yep, the passage which tells us Jesus Christ is The Advocate with The Father if we sin.
and what do "WITH" the Father means? we suggest you read Isaiah 41:4 and Isaiah 48:12.

which gets all your Fathers, Son, and Holy Spirit as ONE PERSON.

so read those verses carefully, for full edification.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
It means mediator, go between. defender.
LOL, LOL, and....... JG can you read? I said " advocate", (which is a intercessor), but I asked for the term, " advocate", and i gave you the scripture, 1 John 2:1. well lets see why you dodge the term
advocate: G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

yes JG, the advocate is the COMFORTER, the Holy Spirit who is the Lord JESUS, whom you call the Son.... (smile).

well JG, one of your three person is eliminated. for the one who you calls the Son is the one whom you calls the Holy Spirit/Ghost..... (smile).

so, you want to try again?

PICJAG, 101G.
 
and what do "WITH" the Father means? we suggest you read Isaiah 41:4 and Isaiah 48:12.

which gets all your Fathers, Son, and Holy Spirit as ONE PERSON.

so read those verses carefully, for full edification.

PICJAG, 101G.
You were already debunked with your ideas.

Isaiah 41:4 shows "last" is plural referring to the last generations.


Why do you keep peddling the same errors?
 
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