Please post a Bible passage that places “the Son of God” TRANSCENDENT of Genesis 1:1.
- Thread starter Yahchristian
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johnny guitar
Well-known member
Correct.
D) Both words God are seemingly the same referent ie the Father due to being the same God but are two referents ... Father and Word, distinctions in God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Father and the Word seemingly indistinctly was the Father.
D) Both words God are seemingly the same referent ie the Father due to being the same God but are two referents ... Father and Word, distinctions in God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Father and the Word seemingly indistinctly was the Father.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Correct.
The Father is the Christ, and man who is anointed of God as Jesus was are His Christs. We are Christs and Christ is Gods.
Christ = Man who's mind if anointed of God to have His same disposition of mind, Spirit. Which is Christ in me.
Not many do at all. Here is what Jesus Said about that very thing himself.
John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.
John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joihn 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you
John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Genesis 1:1 refers to God without regard to any particular Relative Oppositio/Predication ,signified by this word Person. Secondly Word and Son express the Same. Thirdly God has never been without His Wisdom ,hence The Word is Ever Begotten/Conceived. Fourthly whensoever The Father is likewise so also whensover The Son is. The Atemporal Logos/Word The same in the Beginning was Temporally made to the creature.
Let me tell you anti Trinitarians, and Trinitarian something , God does not Birth a creature neither does He turn into a creature. God by His very Nature Ever Conceived of His own Goodness His Consubstantial Express Image/Similitude. Properly called Eternally Begotten/Ever Born and Rightly called Son.
The problem with anti Trinitarians such as yourself Yachristian ,is your typical erroneous Starting Christological heretical premise ," The Father thought about a son in eternity until the fullness of time, God birthed/climbed in/turned into a creature son by utterance of the voice'.
Tell me how hard is it for Oneness Trinitarians, Unitarians alike to grasp that our logos/word is thought following after thought, if activity of the soul, Whereas God's Logos/Verbum/Word is Divine Life in itself by itself within itself Hypostatic by itself, and thus the distinct Personalis of The Son , The Second Hypostasis having Godhead/The Second Person of The Blessed Trinity.
Yachristian when will all modern humans collectively grasp that," Nothing can be The Form of God, but God". God is His very own Godhead. The Son's very Existence is The Person/Suppositum of God, and God's Nature and Perfection is Transcendent.
I'm sorry Yachristian but the only Relation whereby The Son Subsist, with the Father could only be A Relation of Identity ,and this is by reason of God's Supreme Simplicity.
....... ALan
Yahchristian
Well-known member
I am asking about the specific Bible term you mentioned, “the Son of God”…
Genesis 1:1 makes no mention of “the Son” (or “the Son of God”). And since TRINITARIANS agree the saints for the first 4,000 years did not think Genesis 1:1 even implied a “Son”, you need to post another verse.
Please post a Bible passage that places “the Son of God” TRANSCENDENT of Genesis 1:1.
The Word was with God, was God and created the universe (John 1:1-3) ... suggests the Word is transcendent like the Father, although also imminent in as far as His power extends to our universe.
Gary Mac ,
I need you to listen to me very carefully . God by His very Nature is Spirit ,and being Spirit does not make God any less a Rational Intelligent Self Existing Substance/Thing. Infinite Intelligent Supreme Substance/Deity to be exact. Now You asserted God is Spirit . He is also Incommunicable and Substantial ,and thus this word Person is applied to Him imperfectly in a more excellent way. Therefore when we signify with this word person as applied to God singly or plurally we signify the determination of Incommunicability and Substantiality . Since God is Eternal Infinite and Uncreated the determinate manner in this word Person is signified Indeterminately. God is absolutely Indeterminate, (Ex 3:14}.
Therefore Gary Mac, a living thing, which speaks by itself ,thinks by itself ,and exist by itself, can have the dignify of this word Person. Hence God is a Person inasmuch as He is One Person/Father and another/Son ,and another/ Holy Spirit , but not however as if other than God Himself.
Why do you think asserting God Spirit makes this word Person any less befitting of Him? Also tell me, other than you simply thinking it, how does signifying God in Personalis, singular or plural makes Him any less Spirit /Virtus Spirationis? Of course it doesn't, but clearly that fact don't keep you from arguing as if it does anyway.
..........Alan
Yachristian your question literally presupposes, the Son is other than numerically One with The Father . And thus other lessor created being. Therefore not God . You might as well tell me," Jesus is just a man with the fully indwelling spirit representing God The Father".
The Son's transcendence is in Godhead ,and The Son has Godhead on account of having Sonship conjoined in being God own Consubstantial Logos/Word Himself. And The Word was God. God is the same as Godhead.
You do realize this name God is Greater than what is contained in the relative name Father in oppositio to the relative name Son?
Hope that helps ,
........Alan
Yahchristian
Well-known member
???
I BELIEVE He who is the Father IS He who is the Son.
IT IS TRINITARIANS who believe He is NOT the Father who is the Son !!!!!
Just to confirm what YOU believe…
Is this TRUE or FALSE?
He is not the Father who is the Son. (Catholic Catechism 254)
Tanachreader
Well-known member
Yahchristian
Well-known member
I am not sure if you are saying TRUE or FALSE.
So to clarify…………
Please just say either TRUE or FALSE…
He is not the Father who is the Son.
Runningman
Well-known member
Refers to the beginning of the church in the same sense John spoke of in 1 John 1:1-3. That beginning isn't the literal beginning of creation since they were not there to see, hear, or touch anything until after the "word of life" manifested.
Photine
Well-known member
Oh no I need to listen to Jesus very carefully. You can be wrong he cant.
God is a Spirit, Spirit denotes mind and the condition of, knowledge of.
My boat is a she but that does not make her a person.
Two say God is a he is for the very same reason my boat is a she.
Actually God is a Spirit and makes His abode on persons. Jesus was very clear when he said the kingdom o f God does not come with observation, it is within you. Luke 17:20-21.
Because He is not a person, he is a Spirit -- you dont know what His Spirit is do you?
It doesn't, God has always been a Spirit and never has changed at all , same yesterday as today and will be the same tomorrow.
If there is an argument, it isn't with me, your argument is with God,
You say I need to listen to you closely. Why is your way better than Gods way? You act as if God is incapable of relaying His intent for mankind in us and I need to follow you instead of God Himself. God is quite capable;e of conveying His will in me. Just as with Jesus he trusted no man, nor do I only the Father who conveys His messages Himself without the beliefs of man ion their own opinions.
Gods suggestion for you is, listen to Him instead of dictating your will for Him.
How can you if he's "returned to the elements"?
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Yep, incarnated AS a MAN.
Runningman
Well-known member
Where does the Bible say Jesus was "incarnated?"