Pray for Israel?

bigthinker

Well-known member
I don't understand the appeals to "pray for Israel".
First of all, pray to whom?
and for what?
Is God unaware of what's going on and needs to have it brought to his attention?
But it seems the all knowing God isn't unaware... So either God chooses to do nothing or God is unable to do something about the situation.
Which is it?
Perhaps God is just waiting for the right people -or the right number of people to pray for Israel?
I suppose if prayer worked, Israel wouldn't be in the situation it's.
 
I don't understand the appeals to "pray for Israel".
Pity.
First of all, pray to whom?
YHVH.
he's that God who created everything and sustains us.
and for what?
Exactly what you said.
Is God unaware of what's going on and needs to have it brought to his attention?
Nope.
But it seems the all knowing God isn't unaware... So either God chooses to do nothing or God is unable to do something about the situation.
according to the Bible, once God steps in and fights for Israel, the proverbial sh88 is going to hit the fan on a global scale
Which is it?
there are 66 books in a text known as the bible.
you're more than welcome to read it.
his plans for Israel are described in the Bible.
Perhaps God is just waiting for the right people -or the right number of people to pray for Israel?
No. God is acutely aware of everything that's taking place in the entire cosmos, and the human race, the animal and plant and bug domains.
He's also got an excellent sense of time.


I suppose if prayer worked, Israel wouldn't be in the situation it's.
Sure it would.
 
Perhaps but I'm not worried about it.
YHVH.
he's that God who created everything and sustains us.
So he knows the situation.
Exactly what you said.

Nope.

according to the Bible, once God steps in and fights for Israel, the proverbial sh88 is going to hit the fan on a global scale
Where does the Bible say that?
there are 66 books in a text known as the bible.
you're more than welcome to read it.
his plans for Israel are described in the Bible.
Then there's no reason to pray.
You didn't answer the question though: which is it?
Which do YOU think it is?
No. God is acutely aware of everything that's taking place in the entire cosmos, and the human race, the animal and plant and bug domains.
He's also got an excellent sense of time.
So God is a jerk, just letting his people suffer and inflict suffering on Palestinians...
That sounds about right, God is a monster.
 
according to the Bible, once God steps in and fights for Israel, the proverbial sh88 is going to hit the fan on a global scale
Unless the other side have iron chariots, of course.

Judges 1:19 The LORD was with Judah, so they gained possession of the mountain region. But they could not dispossess those who lived on the plain, because they had iron chariots.
 
Perhaps but I'm not worried about it.
You should be doing something to rectify it. Worry does nothing.

So he knows the situation.
Oh yeah.
Where does the Bible say that?
Read it and find out.
Then there's no reason to pray.
Actually, YHVH commands his people to pray.
Isa 62:6-7 KJV 6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Luk 18:1-8 KJV 1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

1Th 5:17 KJV Pray without ceasing.

Phi 4:6-7 KJV 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.



You didn't answer the question though: which is it?
Which do YOU think it is?
Read the Bible for the purpose of understanding.
Israel will be reestablished as THE preeminent nation on earth, and God Himself will be on the throne in Jerusalem.
So God is a jerk, just letting his people suffer and inflict suffering on Palestinians...
The Palestinians are not God's family, unless they happen to be following Jesus
That sounds about right, God is a monster.
 
You should be doing something to rectify it. Worry does nothing.
Did you read that wrong? I said I'm NOT worried about it
So God is a jerk? OR maybe he's aware but can't do anything about it? Which is it?
Actually, YHVH commands his people to pray.
So it's a matter of jumping thru God's hoops?
Isa 62:6-7 KJV 6 I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence, 7 And give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Luk 18:1-8 KJV 1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint; 2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: 3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. 4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; 5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. 6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. 7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? 8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

1Th 5:17 KJV Pray without ceasing.

Phi 4:6-7 KJV 6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. 7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
So basically you believe you are to pray without ceasing but prayer accomplishes nothing.
Read the Bible for the purpose of understanding.
Yeah, I understand what in the Bible says.
Israel will be reestablished as THE preeminent nation on earth, and God Himself will be on the throne in Jerusalem.
Nonsense.
The Palestinians are not God's family, unless they happen to be following Jesus
I think Palestinians would mostly disagree with you.
You may think they aren't part of YOUR god's family but it's not as if your god is the only one -or even special.
 
Did you read that wrong? I said I'm NOT worried about it
I understood you perfectly.
My point is that you should be learning.
So God is a jerk? OR maybe he's aware but can't do anything about it? Which is it?
Neither.
Granted, had you taken the time to learn the Bible, you'd have seen what it really is.

So it's a matter of jumping thru God's hoops?
It's his universe.
he's inviting us to become a member of his family.

So basically you believe you are to pray without ceasing but prayer accomplishes nothing.
For you it accomplishes nothing because you keep blaspheming him, and disregarding his Word to you.
Yeah, I understand what in the Bible says.
then what makes you think that you'll be innocent of your sin?
Nonsense.
no, but you keep telling yourself that. It obviously helps you feel better about your state before God.


I think Palestinians would mostly disagree with you.
I'm sure they do.
their thinking only matters when they agree with YHVH.
their trust in Allah only ensures that they will receive the justice due sin.
You may think they aren't part of YOUR god's family but it's not as if your god is the only one -or even special.
Actually, YHVH is in fact the only God.
All the other gods are demons.

Isa 45:21 WEB Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior. There is no one besides me.

Isa 44:8 WEBDon’t fear, neither be afraid. Haven’t I declared it to you long ago, and shown it? You are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is not. I don’t know any other Rock.”

Isa 43:10 WEB “You are my witnesses,” says Yahweh, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.

Deu 32:16-17 WEB 16 They moved him to jealousy with strange gods. They provoked him to anger with abominations. 17 They sacrificed to demons, not God, to gods that they didn’t know, to new gods that came up recently, which your fathers didn’t dread.
 
I understood you perfectly.
My point is that you should be learning.
You seem to have nothing to offer -nothing to "teach".
Neither.
Granted, had you taken the time to learn the Bible, you'd have seen what it really is.
I have. I see it for what it really is. You believe it is something different but are unable to make the case for your belief -apparently.
It's his universe.
"his" who? Does this "his" exist outside of your imagination?
he's inviting us to become a member of his family.
Says you. I haven't been invited -inspite of what you may believe otherwise.
For you it accomplishes nothing because you keep blaspheming him, and disregarding his Word to you.
Yep. Without consequence. Heresy is free thinking.
then what makes you think that you'll be innocent of your sin?
What "sin"?
Why would I sin? Truly, only an short sighted idiot would sin. Doesn't sin cause hardship and pain? What kind of idiot would choose hardship and pain?
no, but you keep telling yourself that. It obviously helps you feel better about your state before God.
I have no need to feel better before characters of your imagination.
I'm sure they do.
their thinking only matters when they agree with YHVH.
Well, I doubt Palestinians accept your imaginary characters as being real. So they're probably not worried about that either.
their trust in Allah only ensures that they will receive the justice due sin.

Actually, YHVH is in fact the only God.
All the other gods are demons.
In your imagination, sure. Whatever you say.
Isa 45:21 WEB Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior. There is no one besides me.

Isa 44:8 WEBDon’t fear, neither be afraid. Haven’t I declared it to you long ago, and shown it? You are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? Indeed, there is not. I don’t know any other Rock.”

Isa 43:10 WEB “You are my witnesses,” says Yahweh, “With my servant whom I have chosen; that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he. Before me there was no God formed, neither will there be after me.

Deu 32:16-17 WEB 16 They moved him to jealousy with strange gods. They provoked him to anger with abominations. 17 They sacrificed to demons, not God, to gods that they didn’t know, to new gods that came up recently, which your fathers didn’t dread.
Your interpretations of scripture are meaningless to anyone other than yourself. You are self important.
 
You seem to have nothing to offer -nothing to "teach".
You're the one who's made it abundantly clear that you know everything, so you can no longer learn.




I have. I see it for what it really is.
Case in point.

You believe it is something different but are unable to make the case for your belief - apparently.
apparently....
A perfect example of you knowing more than you actually do.
When you decide to come down from your high horse and join the rest of the human race, then you can go back through my comments above and learn to understand a world view beyond anything you've ever perceived before.
"his" who? Does this "his" exist outside of your imagination?
Here's another good example of your inability to follow a simple discussion.

Says you. I haven't been invited -inspite of what you may believe otherwise.
Then let's handle that.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

Now you've been invited.



Yep. Without consequence. Heresy is free thinking.
heresy is stupid thinking.
Heresy is telling, and believing lies.
What "sin"?
It's lawlessness.
Doing things that are described in Exodus 20 that God says not to do.
Why would I sin? Truly, only an short sighted idiot would sin.
Agreed!
So, do you use God's name as cussing ?
Do you think you know better than God?
do you rage at the things your parents did when you were a child and under age teenager?
have you ever told a lie?
Jesus said- if you look at a woman with sexual desire, you've already committed adultery with her.
Jesus also said- if you're angry with someone without cause, you're already guilty of murdering them.
Have you ever stolen anything?
Ever been envious of someone else or what they have, their lifestyle, etc...?

Doesn't sin cause hardship and pain?
not always.
sometimes sin is quite pleasurable.
What kind of idiot would choose hardship and pain?
Indeed.

I have no need to feel better before characters of your imagination.
The only one's whose imagination is imposing their imagination on others is you.
But, this is further evidence that you are convinced you've know more than you actually do.

Well, I doubt Palestinians accept your imaginary characters as being real.
then I'd say that you should join them. It'll ensure you get what you want.

So they're probably not worried about that either.
That's typical to people who provoke YHVH.

In your imagination, sure. Whatever you say.
Ever notice that you're always using your own imagination to tell others what their imagination is concocting?
I'd say that it's not my imagination at work here, but your own.
Your interpretations of scripture are meaningless to anyone other than yourself. You are self important.
Yet another example of your imagination hard at work.
 
You're the one who's made it abundantly clear that you know everything, so you can no longer learn.
Right. lol. that's why I keep asking Christians if they can make their case with non-imaginary evidence; because I "know everything".
Please, what a dishonest and ignorant thing to say.
What I know at this point is that Christians
Case in point.

apparently....
A perfect example of you knowing more than you actually do.
When you decide to come down from your high horse and join the rest of the human race, then you can go back through my comments above and learn to understand a world view beyond anything you've ever perceived before.

Here's another good example of your inability to follow a simple discussion.


Then let's handle that.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

Now you've been invited.




heresy is stupid thinking.
Heresy is telling, and believing lies.
Heresy is free thought.
It's lawlessness.
Doing things that are described in Exodus 20 that God says not to do.
Are you suggesting that Exodus applies to me?
lol.
Go ahead, believer, make your case. Convince me that your belief that your interpretation of Scripture applies to me is true.
Agreed!
So, do you use God's name as cussing ?
Do you think you know better than God?
God doesn't seem very bright. If I had to describe it in more detail, I would say that God is only as smart as the humans who believe in him. In fact it's indistinguishable.
do you rage at the things your parents did when you were a child and under age teenager?
have you ever told a lie?
Jesus said- if you look at a woman with sexual desire, you've already committed adultery with her.
Jesus also said- if you're angry with someone without cause, you're already guilty of murdering them.
Have you ever stolen anything?
Ever been envious of someone else or what they have, their lifestyle, etc...?
No to all of these. Sin is stupid. Are you stupid enough to sin? Maybe you can't help it. God kinda set you up to be a sinner didn't he... fool.
not always.
sometimes sin is quite pleasurable.
But always with consequences, right?
What kind of idiot would choose to sin?
Indeed.
The only one's whose imagination is imposing their imagination on others is you.
You don't have a counter point so my conclusion is that I'm correct. What else should I conclude?
But, this is further evidence that you are convinced you've know more than you actually do.
Perhaps. But unfortunately you seem unable to make that case. Assert away!
then I'd say that you should join them. It'll ensure you get what you want.
You mean I'll get an honest answer from an honest Christian? Yay! it might be a first! lol
That's typical to people who provoke YHVH.
Your God seems incapable of doing anything outside of your imagination. Am I part of your imagination? Should I be afraid of the imaginary God?
Ever notice that you're always using your own imagination to tell others what their imagination is concocting?
Nope. I'm aware of the inability of Christians like you to demonstrate any non-imaginary evidence for the existence of their gods outside of their imaginations.
My awareness of that is not imaginary.
I'd say that it's not my imagination at work here,
Of course you'd say that. The proof -which you will ignore and avoid is that you won't demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
What other conclusion could I come to then?

Once again Steve, you've used a lot of words to say almost nothing.
Nice work!
 
Right. lol. that's why I keep asking Christians if they can make their case with non-imaginary evidence; because I "know everything".
Ever notice you've already decided what evidence you consider non-imaginary?
That sounds like an "I know better" attitude if ever I saw one.


Please, what a dishonest and ignorant thing to say.
I'm working from your posts.

What I know at this point is that Christians
What?
Reads like an incomplete thought.
Heresy is free thought.
So, free thought is letting the dogs out to roam without a leash, or collar?
sounds like a good way to get them killed by running into the wrong pack.
It's a curious thing about this issue....
YHVH mentions it.

Isa 65:2-3 WEB 2 I have spread out my hands all day to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, after their own thoughts; 3 a people who provoke me to my face continually, .......

People I'm acquainted with who are free thinkers have opened their mind so much that it fell out.


Are you suggesting that Exodus applies to me?
lol.

actually, YHVH commands it.

Go ahead, believer, make your case.
Based on your extensive arguments and mockery, I'd say that making a case would just give you more excuses to make sure you spend your eternity in the lake of fire.
I'm not interested in seeing you perish.
Convince me that your belief that your interpretation of Scripture applies to me is true.
It's pretty simple.
YHVH is inviting you to come live with him, be adopted into his family, for God to become your heavenly Father and for Jesus to become your brother.



God doesn't seem very bright. If I had to describe it in more detail, I would say that God is only as smart as the humans who believe in him. In fact it's indistinguishable.
another example of you believing you know more than you actually do.

No to all of these. Sin is stupid. Are you stupid enough to sin? Maybe you can't help it. God kinda set you up to be a sinner didn't he... fool.

But always with consequences, right?
What kind of idiot would choose to sin?

You don't have a counter point so my conclusion is that I'm correct. What else should I conclude?

Perhaps. But unfortunately you seem unable to make that case. Assert away!

You mean I'll get an honest answer from an honest Christian? Yay! it might be a first! lol

Your God seems incapable of doing anything outside of your imagination. Am I part of your imagination? Should I be afraid of the imaginary God?

Nope. I'm aware of the inability of Christians like you to demonstrate any non-imaginary evidence for the existence of their gods outside of their imaginations.
My awareness of that is not imaginary.

Of course you'd say that. The proof -which you will ignore and avoid is that you won't demonstrate that your God exists outside of your imagination.
What other conclusion could I come to then?

Once again Steve, you've used a lot of words to say almost nothing.
Nice work!
You used even more words to show exactly how little you know.
 
Ever notice you've already decided what evidence you consider non-imaginary?
The distinction between objective (non-imaginary) evidence and imaginary evidence is not decided by me. And I'm fine dealing with each individual piece presented on its own merits.
Watcha got? Let's take a look.
 
I don't understand the appeals to "pray for Israel".
First of all, pray to whom?
and for what?
Is God unaware of what's going on and needs to have it brought to his attention?
But it seems the all knowing God isn't unaware... So either God chooses to do nothing or God is unable to do something about the situation.
Which is it?
Perhaps God is just waiting for the right people -or the right number of people to pray for Israel?
I suppose if prayer worked, Israel wouldn't be in the situation it's.
There are several ideas in play when someone tells others to pray for Israel.

I'm not going to list them all (as I've identified them), but I'll simply say that the most harmless - and also the most beneficial/positive - is that prayer gives the helpless some sense that they can help. It turns empathy into something that might be able to affect change (through prayers being answered, etc).

Out of respect for the Christians I like/admire here, I'll leave it at that.
 
There are several ideas in play when someone tells others to pray for Israel.

I'm not going to list them all (as I've identified them), but I'll simply say that the most harmless - and also the most beneficial/positive - is that prayer gives the helpless some sense that they can help. It turns empathy into something that might be able to affect change (through prayers being answered, etc).

Out of respect for the Christians I like/admire here, I'll leave it at that.
Yes, agreed; it does do that.
However, it's a false sense -I realize that Christians/believers don't think it's a false sense; they think it is legit, valid and (I presume) believe it can make a difference.
My question brings up the point that it doesn't really serve an effect purpose.
 
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