Some believers limit salvation to water baptism and you seem to add to believing in Him with confessing with our mouths as the means for salvation. I'd say it is the result of salvation, but not the actual cause of salvation since believing in Him is how one is born again of the Spirit..
Prove the Practice of Worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son
- Thread starter Hark
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rossh
Well-known member
No, NOT me, not at all,,, lol, it is directly from Scripture ???
So,,, what is it that you want then ? Is it bad to quote and or use Scriptures around here ?
I thought this was a Christian-ARM type website.. ? You pretend that you do not understand, it does not say, and no one ever said that we have to walk the streets and highways confessing Yeshua as our own Lord and Messiah to strangers and the like .. This is best done once and for all, IN your church. The best time would be at your adult baptism... speak to your pastor about it.
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[f]
why is it so hard for your guys to believe this ? Seriously ??? everyone here has only ever quoted and demanded that verse 11 only,, is the most important issue and they discard the rest of the Chapter ??
rossh
Well-known member
well it is possible that if you should evee actually READ Romans instead of thinking that I am making it all up then you will hear Gods Word for your self... IF youy\ choose to believe and follow Gods Word then
Romans 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[d] that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”[e] 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”...
I said aloud for all to hear, on a Sunday, at Church service in front of and to ALL present. " I confess Yeshua, Gods only flesh and blood Son,, to be MY Lord and MY Savior! amen! " That is it is, one time only is enough, not day in and day out nor week after week NO.
But scripture also has Him saying that by believing in Him is how we are saved. The cause and effect of that truth can be seen in the Gentile believers in Acts 10 for when they were saved before coming forward, or confessing Him with their mouths, or getting water baptized first.
Just sharing what the scripture says too.
I point out this truth from your quote of passage "believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified,..." which leads to confessing Him with our mouths.. for those that can. We are saved first as the case for the effect of confessing Him with our mouths.
So there are numerous scripture testifying to the power of God in salvation by saving those that believe the preaching of the cross.
rossh
Well-known member
OK that is fine, as long as YOU are happy, you go right ahead and believe YOU, and I will remain believing the Word Of God/Scriptures.. ONLY I do appreciate your comments..
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
It funny that the folks who obsess over the Rom 8:26 passage never seem to notice that THERE IS NO UTTERANCE implied. Same goes for the Isa 28:11 passage, which has to do with CAPTIVITY, not speaking in tongues.
rossh
Well-known member
How to better understand GOD,, through the Bob knows best, school of salvation!!! All us true believers obsess over the entirety of Gods Word. There were never verse and or chapter numbers.. that is the RCC's fault
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Meaningless Post.
rossh
Well-known member
LOL,, that is very good reply from you Bob... God Bless you..
rossh
Well-known member
Don't forget the part about all of you guys.......
But there are others reeling from wine,
staggering about because of strong liquor;
cohen and prophet reel from strong liquor,
they are confused by wine.
Led astray by strong liquor,
they err in their visions and stumble when judging.
8 All tables are covered with vomit and feces,
not a single place is clean.
9 Can no one be taught anything?
Can no one understand the message?
Must one teach barely weaned toddlers,
babies just taken from the breast,
10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? —
Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav,
kav la-kav, kav la-kav
z‘eir sham, z‘eir sham
[Precept by precept, precept by precept,
But there are others reeling from wine,
staggering about because of strong liquor;
cohen and prophet reel from strong liquor,
they are confused by wine.
Led astray by strong liquor,
they err in their visions and stumble when judging.
8 All tables are covered with vomit and feces,
not a single place is clean.
9 Can no one be taught anything?
Can no one understand the message?
Must one teach barely weaned toddlers,
babies just taken from the breast,
10 so that [one has to use nursery rhymes]? —
Tzav la-tzav, tzav la-tzav,
kav la-kav, kav la-kav
z‘eir sham, z‘eir sham
[Precept by precept, precept by precept,
rossh
Well-known member
so are all your posts, why ask me why I am worshipping the HS when I am not and never have ?
rossh
Well-known member
6 Having one's mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one's mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom.
May be you should reply post to the author ? Tell him his errors and such the like, as you usually do...
I had never mentioned Isaiah 28:11 passage but I do not know if someone else did, but we can hear when someone is groaning thus uttering sounds.
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV
John 16:13 testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot utter or express himself in that way, but only speak what He hears.
John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV
Then you have the NIV committing a grammatical error by switching out the "he" in verse 27 to be "the Spirit" when that cannot be. The "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts & separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of the Spirit, for why that "he" cannot conclude as "the Spirit" in that verse 27. That "he" is Jesus Christ that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 & because He is the only Mediator between God and men, the Holy Spirit cannot give His intercessions directly to the Father because only Jesus Christ can at that throne of grace because the Son intercedes for us always ( Hebrews 7:25 ) in giving our prayers, the Spirit's unuttered prayers, and the son's own prayers for us to the Father so that when the Father agrees to any of those intercessions or prayer requests, the Son answers the prayer so that the father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers. per John 14:13-14
You can read other versions at Bible Gateway, but only a few modern bibles are aligning with the KJV in keeping the meat in His words.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Pentecostals / Charismatics, desperate to "Prove" their Tongues thing normally improperly use Isaiah 28:11, and Rom 8:26,27 as 'PROOF texts" even though neither passage has anything to do with 1 Cor 12 "Tongues". Rom 8, of course is THE SPIRIT groaning, and clearly states that His groaning CAN NOT BE UTTERED.
In the KJV, it is plainly testified that He intercedes with groanings which cannot be uttered, but that is not the case in most modern Bibles as the NIV has it as with wordless groans. Do note that there is nothing in the NIV in relations to those wordless groans as not being uttered.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Believe whatever you please.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
I never asked you anything like that.
NIV is plainly written that the the Holy Spirit makes intercessions "with" wordless groans;
That is not the same thing as "with groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV. You may be reading the KJV into the NIV, but the NV by itself has been used by modern day tongue speakers as supporting tongues for private use as if the Holy Spirit prays in gibberish nonsense.
There is another version that has Him interceding for us with groanings too deep for words.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. ESV
Even sighs were added to this one Bible version to implies sounds being expressed by the Holy Spirit.
26 In the same way the Spirit [comes to us and] helps us in our weakness. We do not know what prayer to offer or how to offer it as we should, but the Spirit Himself [knows our need and at the right time] intercedes on our behalf with sighs and groanings too deep for words. AMP
You will find modern bibles keeping the truth in His words as the KJV has it, but using Himself rather than itself, is why believers are not understanding verse 27 for why "itself" is used because the Holy Spirit is not giving His intercessions Himself when Jesus has to know the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unuttered intercessions to the Father. The KJV uses Him and He in regards to the Holy Spirit even in the Book of Romans, and so the question is why "itself" unless knowing the mind of the Holy Spirit is how His unuttered intercessions are known to the Father.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
I'm KJVP, and don't bother with other version of the Bible generally. Speaking in tongues in private worship is every bit is clear in the KJV (1 Cor 14) as it is in the NIV, so no issue there at all. Speaking unto God and not unto Man is Prayer no matter how you slice it. Paul says he speaks in tongues more than y'all, BUT IN THE MEETINGS he communicates in the common tongue.