Prove the Practice of Worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Hark]

I'm KJVP, and don't bother with other version of the Bible generally. Speaking in tongues in private worship is every bit is clear in the KJV (1 Cor 14) as it is in the NIV, so no issue there at all. Speaking unto God and not unto Man is Prayer no matter how you slice it. Paul says he speaks in tongues more than y'all, BUT IN THE MEETINGS he communicates in the common tongue.

Not sure why you contend that Romans 8:26-27 in the NIV is not proof text to what you believe.

I can only suggest to you to reconsider your reading of 1 Corinthians 14:2, because 1 Corinthians 14:28 is key. If verse 28 is supposedly read and applied as speaking in tongues but if no interpretation, to be commanded to be silent, and yet Paul says not to forbid speaking in tongues in verse 39, why can Paul command that person to be silent when there is no interpretation in verse 28? See the conundrum?

If one believes one can speak in tongues or pray in tongues quietly while others on either side of them are trying to listen to what is going on in the assembly, they are sadly mistaken. If churches do not allow people to talk in church, as it would be distracting and hard to hear, even though we have an electronic sound system, why would anyone be allowed to pray in tongues quietly in the days of Paul in church?

So obviously, verse 28 means no speaking in tongues at all when there is no interpretation. BUT, that does not align because if the Spirit is bothering to manifest speaking in tongues, then why would Paul command Him to be silent, even when supposedly praying? That is nonsense as it is also going against not forbidding anyone speaking in tongues.

So verse 28 is about a foreigner speaking out of turn for why there is no interpretation of that tongue because the holy Spirit is not manifesting that tongue. When you have 2 or 3 speak in tongues while one interprets in verse 27, newcomers & visitors may not understand what is going on and stand up to speak out of turn. That verse 28 is Paul's way of saying that this is a foreigner speaking out of turn and not speaking in tongues for why he is commanded to be silent because and Paul says this; he speaks to himself and to God, meaning he understands what he is saying as God does; not that he is speaking to himself and speaking to God as well.

That is how you are to read verse 2 because him speaking to God is not saying he is speaking TO God but that God understands what he is saying, but the man speaking does not understand what he is saying as in the spirt, he is speaking mysteries. There are no mysteries to God but only the man speaking in God's gift of tongues is a mystery to himself. That is why Paul says for those who speak in tongue to pray that God will raise up someone to interpret that tongue for the tongue speaker so that he may understand what is being manifested by tongues so that tongue will be fruitful to himself as well and not just to others.

This is why Paul from the beginning of that chapter is exhorting prophesy over all gifts and began comparing tongues against prophesy because tongues is not a stand alone gift because it has to come with interpretation for the tongue speaker and others in the assembly..

1 Corinthians 12th chapter lays the ground work about the gifts manifested in the assembly, and they are not gained by seeking another baptism with the Holy Ghost as verse 13 testify for we are all to speak the same thing of having that one drink of the One Spirit by which we were baptized by at our salvation moment when born again of the Spirit. Verses 19-21 is proof for why tongues are not for private use also.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

Modern day tongue speakers list all the benefits for tongues for private use without realizing that they are saying they have no need of the body of Christ. That is why God's gift of tongues are not for private use as it is to profit the body withal.

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

So the Holy Spirit does not need to pray in tongues or utter anything in that regard. Romans 8:26-27 is for all believers for why there is no need for the Spirit to pray out loud in tongues, and John 16:13 in ALL Bibles says He cannot speak from Himself in that way either.

Now you say Romans 8:26-27 does not support tongues and John 16:13 limits how the Holy Spirit will speak by only speaking what He hears, then there can be no praying out loud from the holy Ghost for tongues in private use.

So what is happening? Apostasy because these kinds of supernatural pagan tongues have been in the world before Pentecost as gibberish nonsense that even the Bible confirms in Isaiah 8:19. This is why John says to not believe every spirit but test them as He dwells in us but that which is out in the world and coming over us later in life as a saved believer, that is not the Holy Spirit ( 1 John 4:1-4 ) and we are to even test the tongues they bring ( 1 John 4:5-6 ) If a believer believes they can receive the holy Spirit again, God will permit that strong delusion to occur for why they are getting tongues without interpretation and thus assumed for private use ( 2 Thessalonians 2:9-15 with verses 13-15 as reproof for the lie in verses 9-12 ).

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

With Romans 8:26-27, this is because of Jesus Christ searching our hearts & knowing the mind of the Spirit is how the Father knows everything before we even ask in prayer. This is written to assure us hen we are overwhelmed and we do not know what or hoe to pray, we can rest in His words that the Father knows.

Ask Jesus Christ for wisdom & discernment in normal prayer because how you apply 1 Corinthians 14:2 to mean, is running against the truths in other scripture.

 

[rossh]

NIV is plainly written that the the Holy Spirit makes intercessions "with" wordless groans;

That is not the same thing as "with groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV. You may be reading the KJV into the NIV, but the NV by itself has been used by modern day tongue speakers as supporting tongues for private use as if the Holy Spirit prays in gibberish nonsense.

There is another version that has Him interceding for us with groanings too deep for words.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. ESV

Even sighs were added to this one Bible version to implies sounds being expressed by the Holy Spirit.

26 In the same way the Spirit [comes to us and] helps us in our weakness. We do not know what prayer to offer or how to offer it as we should, but the Spirit Himself [knows our need and at the right time] intercedes on our behalf with sighs and groanings too deep for words. AMP

You will find modern bibles keeping the truth in His words as the KJV has it, but using Himself rather than itself, is why believers are not understanding verse 27 for why "itself" is used because the Holy Spirit is not giving His intercessions Himself when Jesus has to know the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unuttered intercessions to the Father. The KJV uses Him and He in regards to the Holy Spirit even in the Book of Romans, and so the question is why "itself" unless knowing the mind of the Holy Spirit is how His unuttered intercessions are known to the Father.

Romans 8:
26 Similarly, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray the way we should. But the Spirit himself pleads on our behalf with groanings too deep for words; 27 and the one who searches hearts knows exactly what the Spirit is thinking, because his pleadings for God's people accord with God's will.
28 Furthermore, we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called in accordance with his purpose;

29 because those whom he knew in advance, he also determined in advance would be conformed to the pattern of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers;

30 and those whom he thus determined in advance, he also called; and those whom he called, he also caused to be considered righteous; and those whom he caused to be considered righteous he also glorified!

 

[rossh]

Pentecostals / Charismatics, desperate to "Prove" their Tongues thing normally improperly use Isaiah 28:11, and Rom 8:26,27 as 'PROOF texts" even though neither passage has anything to do with 1 Cor 12 "Tongues". Rom 8, of course is THE SPIRIT groaning, and clearly states that His groaning CAN NOT BE UTTERED.

John 16:
12 "I still have many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now.

13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.

14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.

15 Everything the Father has is mine; this is why I said that he receives from what is mine and will announce it to you.

16 "In a little while, you will see me no more; then, a little while later, you will see me."

17 At this, some of the talmidim said to one another, "What is this that he's telling us, `In a little while, you won't see me; then, a little while later, you will see me'? and, `I am going to the Father'?"
Amen..

 

[rossh]

But scripture also has Him saying that by believing in Him is how we are saved. The cause and effect of that truth can be seen in the Gentile believers in Acts 10 for when they were saved before coming forward, or confessing Him with their mouths, or getting water baptized first.

Just sharing what the scripture says too.

obviously,, so how do you convince or tell or encourage others to do the same ? by never ever mentioning the fact ? Hiding our trust and faith in Him from the world ? So many are too embarrassed to express their faith in Him and or their love of the Messiah.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Not sure why you contend that Romans 8:26-27 in the NIV is not proof text to what you believe.

I can only suggest to you to reconsider your reading of 1 Corinthians 14:2, because 1 Corinthians 14:28 is key. If verse 28 is supposedly read and applied as speaking in tongues but if no interpretation, to be commanded to be silent, and yet Paul says not to forbid speaking in tongues in verse 39, why can Paul command that person to be silent when there is no interpretation in verse 28? See the conundrum?

No "Conundrum" at all. Paul, in calling for an interpreter, is talking about a MESSAGE IN TONGUES in the context of a meeting. The normal sequence in a meeting is:
The Holy Spirit will HOLD the service - i.e. whoever is ministering will know to stop what they're doing to make way for the GIFT.
The Holy Spirit will burden a person(s) to deliver a message in tongues and give him/them to content to speak.
While the Tongue is being spoken, the Holy Spirit will Burden a person(s) to speak the interpretation.
When the Tongue is complete, the Interpreter(s) will speak the content that the Holy Spirit has given them.
When the Interpretation has finished, the Holy SPirit will release the service to proceed.

IF a person is BURDENED to speak in a tongue, they don't have to be concerned about an interpretation being given - in fact the TONGUES SPEAKER may also be burdened to speak the interpretation also.

The apparent problem in Corinth was that folks were "Showing off" their tongues for self aggrandizement, and weren't speaking a MESSAGE in tongues at all. They were an unruly bunch, after all - judging one another by the "quality" of the gifts they had. NO WAY would the Holy Spirit burden a message in tongues, if there was nobody to interpret.

You apparently haven't had much experience in Full Gospel churches.

Modern day tongue speakers list all the benefits for tongues for private use without realizing that they are saying they have no need of the body of Christ. That is why God's gift of tongues are not for private use as it is to profit the body withal.

Standard Cessationist rhetoric.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

John 16:
12 "I still have many things to tell you, but you can't bear them now.

13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.

14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.

15 Everything the Father has is mine; this is why I said that he receives from what is mine and will announce it to you.

16 "In a little while, you will see me no more; then, a little while later, you will see me."

17 At this, some of the talmidim said to one another, "What is this that he's telling us, `In a little while, you won't see me; then, a little while later, you will see me'? and, `I am going to the Father'?"
Amen..

What do you think this has to do with anything I said??

 

[rossh]

What do you think this has to do with anything I said??

The scripture that I quoted ? Well,, it has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with anything you say... Nothing...

 

[rossh]

No "Conundrum" at all. Paul, in calling for an interpreter, is talking about a MESSAGE IN TONGUES in the context of a meeting. The normal sequence in a meeting is:
The Holy Spirit will HOLD the service - i.e. whoever is ministering will know to stop what they're doing to make way for the GIFT.
The Holy Spirit will burden a person(s) to deliver a message in tongues and give him/them to content to speak.
While the Tongue is being spoken, the Holy Spirit will Burden a person(s) to speak the interpretation.
When the Tongue is complete, the Interpreter(s) will speak the content that the Holy Spirit has given them.
When the Interpretation has finished, the Holy SPirit will release the service to proceed.

IF a person is BURDENED to speak in a tongue, they don't have to be concerned about an interpretation being given - in fact the TONGUES SPEAKER may also be burdened to speak the interpretation also.

The apparent problem in Corinth was that folks were "Showing off" their tongues for self aggrandizement, and weren't speaking a MESSAGE in tongues at all. They were an unruly bunch, after all - judging one another by the "quality" of the gifts they had. NO WAY would the Holy Spirit burden a message in tongues, if there was nobody to interpret.

You apparently haven't had much experience in Full Gospel churches.

Standard Cessationist rhetoric.

you belong to just another cult, sucked in.. " Full Gospel " ???????? seriously ? do you even know what the word " gospel " means ? It simply means " a teaching of something/anything ".. your gospel has nothing to do with the Messiah Yeshua nor His salvation.

Speaking in Tongues, seriously ? Please!!! do you seriously think that we are as gullible as you are ? " sucks cousin Jed ".. dag nab it..

 

[rossh]

NIV is plainly written that the the Holy Spirit makes intercessions "with" wordless groans;

That is not the same thing as "with groanings which cannot be uttered" in the KJV. You may be reading the KJV into the NIV, but the NV by itself has been used by modern day tongue speakers as supporting tongues for private use as if the Holy Spirit prays in gibberish nonsense.

There is another version that has Him interceding for us with groanings too deep for words.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. ESV

Even sighs were added to this one Bible version to implies sounds being expressed by the Holy Spirit.

26 In the same way the Spirit [comes to us and] helps us in our weakness. We do not know what prayer to offer or how to offer it as we should, but the Spirit Himself [knows our need and at the right time] intercedes on our behalf with sighs and groanings too deep for words. AMP

You will find modern bibles keeping the truth in His words as the KJV has it, but using Himself rather than itself, is why believers are not understanding verse 27 for why "itself" is used because the Holy Spirit is not giving His intercessions Himself when Jesus has to know the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unuttered intercessions to the Father. The KJV uses Him and He in regards to the Holy Spirit even in the Book of Romans, and so the question is why "itself" unless knowing the mind of the Holy Spirit is how His unuttered intercessions are known to the Father.

" groans " are always word less.....

 

[rossh]

I had never mentioned Isaiah 28:11 passage but I do not know if someone else did, but we can hear when someone is groaning thus uttering sounds.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

John 16:13 testifies that the Holy Spirit cannot utter or express himself in that way, but only speak what He hears.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

Then you have the NIV committing a grammatical error by switching out the "he" in verse 27 to be "the Spirit" when that cannot be. The "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts & separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of the Spirit, for why that "he" cannot conclude as "the Spirit" in that verse 27. That "he" is Jesus Christ that searches our hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 & because He is the only Mediator between God and men, the Holy Spirit cannot give His intercessions directly to the Father because only Jesus Christ can at that throne of grace because the Son intercedes for us always ( Hebrews 7:25 ) in giving our prayers, the Spirit's unuttered prayers, and the son's own prayers for us to the Father so that when the Father agrees to any of those intercessions or prayer requests, the Son answers the prayer so that the father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers. per John 14:13-14

You can read other versions at Bible Gateway, but only a few modern bibles are aligning with the KJV in keeping the meat in His words.

and yet HE does speak...
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.

14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.

15 Everything the Father has is mine; this is why I said that he receives from what is mine and will announce it to you.

He is the Spirit of Truth. Yeshua is glorified..

 

[Bob Carabbio]

do you even know what the word " gospel " means ? It simply means " a teaching of something/anything

Actually it means "GOOD NEWS". And the Good News was that what God HAD PROMISED in times past, had finally come to pass in experimental reality. and the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross (Isa 53), provided Absolute CLEANSING from SIN, instead of the old flawed Jewish Sacrificial system, which only HID sin temporarily, but was an antitype of Jesus' sacrifice that was what REALLY got 'er done.

Speaking in Tongues, seriously?

Yup - just another standard Cessationist. You gonna lecture me on 1 Cor 13:8 next??? That's normally part of the cessationist weaponry.
.

 

[rossh]

Actually it means "GOOD NEWS". And the Good News was that what God HAD PROMISED in times past, had finally come to pass in experimental reality. and the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the Cross (Isa 53), provided Absolute CLEANSING from SIN, instead of the old flawed Jewish Sacrificial system, which only HID sin temporarily, but was an antitype of Jesus' sacrifice that was what REALLY got 'er done.

Yup - just another standard Cessationist. You gonna lecture me on 1 Cor 13:8 next??? That's normally part of the cessationist weaponry.
.

lol, you really take yourself way too seriously..... you guys really and truly have some sort of problem ? Why join a religious style website and argue against religion and creation and God and mankind ? Is tit that you hope to us follow you ?

 

[rossh]

What do you think this has to do with anything I said??

because you are an atheist ?

 

[rossh]

No "Conundrum" at all. Paul, in calling for an interpreter, is talking about a MESSAGE IN TONGUES in the context of a meeting. The normal sequence in a meeting is:
The Holy Spirit will HOLD the service - i.e. whoever is ministering will know to stop what they're doing to make way for the GIFT.
The Holy Spirit will burden a person(s) to deliver a message in tongues and give him/them to content to speak.
While the Tongue is being spoken, the Holy Spirit will Burden a person(s) to speak the interpretation.
When the Tongue is complete, the Interpreter(s) will speak the content that the Holy Spirit has given them.
When the Interpretation has finished, the Holy SPirit will release the service to proceed.

IF a person is BURDENED to speak in a tongue, they don't have to be concerned about an interpretation being given - in fact the TONGUES SPEAKER may also be burdened to speak the interpretation also.

The apparent problem in Corinth was that folks were "Showing off" their tongues for self aggrandizement, and weren't speaking a MESSAGE in tongues at all. They were an unruly bunch, after all - judging one another by the "quality" of the gifts they had. NO WAY would the Holy Spirit burden a message in tongues, if there was nobody to interpret.

You apparently haven't had much experience in Full Gospel churches.standard and or expert trolling

Standard Cessationist rhetoric.

 

[rossh]

well ??? according to all of the Scriptures that you quoted for us and to us I see Paul doing nothing.

 

[rossh]

What do you think this has to do with anything I said??

nothing, as you never say anything but, what makes you think that people worship the Holy Spirit ?

 

[Hark]

Romans 8:
26 Similarly, the Spirit helps us in our weakness; for we don't know how to pray the way we should. But the Spirit himself pleads on our behalf with groanings too deep for words; 27 and the one who searches hearts knows exactly what the Spirit is thinking, because his pleadings for God's people accord with God's will.
28 Furthermore, we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called in accordance with his purpose;

29 because those whom he knew in advance, he also determined in advance would be conformed to the pattern of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers;

30 and those whom he thus determined in advance, he also called; and those whom he called, he also caused to be considered righteous; and those whom he caused to be considered righteous he also glorified!

What is according to the will of God?

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me...... 13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

That means the Holy Spirit cannot give His intercessions to the Father directly Himself because that is the Son's job to do for why Jesus is searching our hearts & knowing the mind of the Spirit as it is the Son that gives the Spirit's unspoken intercessions or unuttered pleadings to the Father because when the Father agrees to any of the Spirit's unuttered intercessions as given by the Son, the Son answers the prayers which is in according to the will of God the Father, for that is how the Father is glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hark]

obviously,, so how do you convince or tell or encourage others to do the same ? by never ever mentioning the fact ? Hiding our trust and faith in Him from the world ? So many are too embarrassed to express their faith in Him and or their love of the Messiah.

Was Jesus embarrassed in telling Nicodemus in how we are born again by believing in Jesus Christ after His ascension which is after His crucifixion??

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?..............

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Apparently Jesus as God did not have to worry about them saving themselves by confessing Him to be saved when believing in Him is how He saves sinners and He will help them to confess Him before men after they are saved.

If we continue reading onward, we can see how and why God saves some and not others for why our believing in Him is a work of God too.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

There are saved believers that are afraid to confess Him before men because it will mean certain death. In India, they killed believers, even little children, who would not deny Him while others caved in and did, being forced into Hinduism. They are still saved but they need our prayers for His help to believe He can help them overcome their fear and die if need by by having His love to confess Him before men.

As it is, they are at risk of being left behind when the Bridegroom comes but they are still saved, but wil die, and be with the Lord in Heaven by their spirits, awaiting for their resurrection after the great tribulaion.

So while I think of it, let us pray for the Lord to help those saints that are persecuted & oppressed that they may confess Him before men even if it means certain death.?

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

[Hark]

and yet HE does speak...
13 However, when the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own initiative but will say only what he hears. He will also announce to you the events of the future.

14 He will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and announce it to you.

15 Everything the Father has is mine; this is why I said that he receives from what is mine and will announce it to you.

He is the Spirit of Truth. Yeshua is glorified..

It is much the same way in how we speak in ministry; we may be speaking, but it is the Spirit of Christ that speaks through us; and yet not the Spirit Himself, as if those are His own words, but the words of Christ.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

The Spirit of your Father, thus at the time when jesus was on earth, it was the father speaking through the Holy Spirit in His disciples; now that He has ascended and all power has been given unto the Son, the Holy Spirit speaks the words from Christ as Christ is the Head of the Church.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All that the Father has is now Jesus's and so Jesus ministers to us through the Holy Spirit since Jesus is the Author & Finisher of our faith as our confidence is in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory for why the Holy Spirit gives all credit & glory for whatever He does as the Holy Spirit to Christ Jesus.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[rossh]

It is much the same way in how we speak in ministry; we may be speaking, but it is the Spirit of Christ that speaks through us; and yet not the Spirit Himself, as if those are His own words, but the words of Christ.

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

The Spirit of your Father, thus at the time when jesus was on earth, it was the father speaking through the Holy Spirit in His disciples; now that He has ascended and all power has been given unto the Son, the Holy Spirit speaks the words from Christ as Christ is the Head of the Church.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

All that the Father has is now Jesus's and so Jesus ministers to us through the Holy Spirit since Jesus is the Author & Finisher of our faith as our confidence is in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory for why the Holy Spirit gives all credit & glory for whatever He does as the Holy Spirit to Christ Jesus.

Thank you for sharing.

Amen. Yes indeed, we have the passages for our guidance. I also believe that when some passages are difficult we are not to panic about that. We have to know/believe/realize/thank ( Him ) that our Messiah told us, " it is finished ".. Meaning ? He has done all the work for us and for all of us. Our only work is to truly believe and never doubt..

The words, “It is finished” are found only in John 19:30. The Greek word translated “it is finished” is tetelestai, an accounting term meaning paid in full. Jesus is saying in “It is finished” that the debt owed by man to his Creator on account of Adam’s sin is finally and forever dealt with...