Rekindling Amazement

[mica]

Isn't that blasphemy as you just said in your new thread? Apparently, consistency is not a word that you take to heart.

I'll agree there.

Sure there is, it is just one of the many things you reject as taught by Christian orthodoxy.

catholics show that they know nothing about that.

 

[Misfit]

'Tain't necessarily so. King David's mum was not called the queen. That would have been Michal, Abigail, Bathsheba, etc. - the wife of the king. And look at Queen Elizabeth - her husband was not called "King Philip" was he? You are stretching logic beyond its breaking point to try to make the RCC Mary into something the real Mary never was - a pagan goddess. (But being ensnared by the RCC, you don't have much choice, do you? ?)

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

 

[mica]

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

the biblical queen of heaven is a pagan goddess in the OT.

 

[A new day]

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

I do not attend and have not attended any denomination, of which, shares similar core beliefs with Rc's, so posting information from such a denomination, means little to me. I do however, read Scripture.

Just because a woman in a given country, holds the title queen so and so, of such and such country, does not justify giving them great reverence, or looking upon them with awe as one does with God. Scripture teaches us, that doing so is idolatry. There is no degree's or levels of permissible adoration or great admiration (veneration) in Scripture.

God says verbatim

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

As we read chapter 24 of 2 Kings, we read that God brought judgment AGAINST both Israel and Judah. Why? Because not only was the king doing evil, so was all those in the royal court which included his mommy. The king, his mommy, and all the royal officials were carried off to Babylon as captives. As well as the army and the citizens.

Jeremiah in the OT, pronounced judgment AGAINST those who escaped to Egypt, who insisted on burning incense to the “queen of heaven” (Chapter 44). The Babylonian army invaded Egypt as well.

 

[RiJoRi]

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

Unlike Mary, QE's mother was married to the King of England.

And yes, it is the "RCC Mary". Your goddess is nothing at all like the girl from Galilee. In your vain imaginations, you have given your Mary honors, glories and abilities which belong to God alone.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"

 

[Nondenom40]

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

And that right there is all the proof a catholic has for mary being queen. Nothing. A weak implication. If Bathsheba can be called queen mother why don't we see this for mary? Because shes not. In the Davidic kingdom sure, its a physical, literal, earthly kingdom. The kingdom of God isn't. God alone will rule, we are co-heirs to that kingdom. If there were a queen in heaven we would know about it.

 

[JoeT]

Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,
To thee do we send up our sighs,
Turn then, most gracious advocate,
so by her fervent intercession we may be delivered from present evils and from everlasting death.

How do you think the above sentences sounds? The above sentences go beyond the simple acknowledgment that mary was used of God in a special way. Those sentences give her praise and glory, as if she were our savior, instead of Christ Jesus; that do not belong to her, but to God.

God will not give His glory to another because it is immoral for someone to take credit for something he or she did not do. Most people understand that siphoning off the reputation of others or accepting accolades due to someone else is dishonest and dishonorable. For a human being to attempt to take credit for God’s actions is the height of hubris. Since God is the one from whom glory comes, He will not let stand the assertion that glory comes from mankind or from the idols of man or from nature

Compare
Hail, holy Queen, mother of mercy, Hail our life, our sweetness, and our hope. To you we cry,

with

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.

Isaiah 43:10
Before Me no god was formed, and after Me none will come.

Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.

Isaiah 44:6
“This is what the LORD says— Israel’s King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Revelation 7:10
And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”

There is nothing in Scripture that even hints there is a holy queen. Nor is there any Scripture that says she is our hope. Our salvation and hope is in Jesus Christ alone, WITHOUT mary.

Ephesians 3:12
In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Hebrews 4:16
Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

Your God uses women? Is your god a masher too? Does He make unwanted untoward advances to Mary then slip away in the night leaving a note, "don't call"? Your god seems to be a user of people, just like the Roman deities?

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

No, I didn’t say we make decisions and God accepts them. YOU did. Binding and loosing doesn’t mean “make decisions for God to accept”.

Apparently reading comprehension isn’t something you take to heart.



No there isn’t.

Indeed the Church is given the power to make decisions of what to bind and what to loose. [Cf. Matthew 16:18; 18:18].

JoeT

 

[balshan]

Indeed the Church is given the power to make decisions of what to bind and what to loose. [Cf. Matthew 16:18; 18:18].

JoeT

Indeed it is not your tree which when tested proves it is the bad tree. Matt 7:18, luke 6:43. The fruit it produces is bad.

 

[balshan]

Your God uses women? Is your god a masher too? Does He make unwanted untoward advances to Mary then slip away in the night leaving a note, "don't call"? Your god seems to be a user of people, just like the Roman deities?

JoeT

Your answer makes no sense at all. You love pagan practices - praying to the dead is a good example of such.

 

[balshan]

What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

But Mary isn't the mother of a queen is she? I mean Jesus is not a female.

 

[mica]

Misfit said:
What did they call Queen Elizabeth's mother? Why she was called the "Queen Mother" of course! Say what you will about the Catholic Church, it's as good a place to be as where you are. She's not just the RCC Mary either. (see below)

"In the Jewish culture, a Davidic King would have his mother as Queen rather than his wife, because he rarely had one wife, but many wives. Sharing power with many wives would be much too difficult, but he had only one mother and she was given the title of Queen. Almost every time a new king is introduced in 1 and 2 Kings, the king’s mother is mentioned. She was a member of the royal court, wore a crown, sat on a throne, and shared in the king’s reign (2 Kings 24:12, 15; Jer. 13:18–20). She acted as counselor to her son (Prov. 31), an advocate of the people, and as an intercessor for the citizens of the kingdom (1 Kings 2:17–20). Since Jesus is a King based on the order of David, it makes sense that His mother would be called Queen."

(From prescottorthodox.com)

His kingdom is not of this world. that of the rcc is of this world and the rcc queen of heaven is found in the book of Jeremiah.

 

[A new day]

Your God uses women? Is your god a masher too? Does He make unwanted untoward advances to Mary then slip away in the night leaving a note, "don't call"? Your god seems to be a user of people, just like the Roman deities?

JoeT

what are you talking about, your post makes absolutely no sense.

If both Israel and Judah as a whole were doing as God commanded of them in regard to how they conducted themselves in all things, neither would have been invaded and carried off to exile. In Jeremiah 44, those who escaped to Egypt, continued to do in Egypt as they did in the lands of Israel and Judah. They burned incense to the "queen of heaven" to which Jeremiah gave them a strong rebuke, and then prophesied that disaster would reach them in Egypt because of the burning of incense to the "queen of heaven" The following is from OT Scripture verbatim

The following is from Scripture itself, it does NOT need an interpretation. It is self explanatory, in and of itself.

Jeremiah 44:11-14
11 “Therefore this is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: I am determined to bring disaster on you and to destroy all Judah. 12 I will take away the remnant of Judah who were determined to go to Egypt to settle there. They will all perish in Egypt; they will fall by the sword or die from famine. From the least to the greatest, they will die by sword or famine. They will become a curse and an object of horror, a curse and an object of reproach. 13 I will punish those who live in Egypt with the sword, famine and plague, as I punished Jerusalem. 14 None of the remnant of Judah who have gone to live in Egypt will escape or survive to return to the land of Judah,

drop down to verse 20-27
Then Jeremiah said to all the people, both men and women, who were answering him, 21 “Did not the Lord remember and call to mind the incense burned in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem by you and your ancestors, your kings and your officials and the people of the land? 22 When the Lord could no longer endure your wicked actions and the detestable things you did, your land became a curse and a desolate waste without inhabitants, as it is today. 23 Because you have burned incense and have sinned against the Lord and have not obeyed him or followed his law or his decrees or his stipulations, this disaster has come upon you, as you now see.”


24 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, including the women, “Hear the word of the Lord, all you people of Judah in Egypt. 25 This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You and your wives have done what you said you would do when you promised, ‘We will certainly carry out the vows we made to burn incense and pour out drink offerings to the Queen of Heaven.’

“Go ahead then, do what you promised! Keep your vows! 26 But hear the word of the Lord, all you Jews living in Egypt: ‘I swear by my great name,’ says the Lord, ‘that no one from Judah living anywhere in Egypt will ever again invoke my name or swear, “As surely as the Sovereign Lord lives.” 27 For I am watching over them for harm, not for good; the Jews in Egypt will perish by sword and famine until they are all destroyed.

 

[4Him]

Indeed the Church is given the power to make decisions of what to bind and what to loose. [Cf. Matthew 16:18; 18:18].

JoeT

That would be each and every person born from above.

 

[JoeT]

That would be each and every person born from above.

How would you know if they are born from above or from below? Where in Scripture does it say 4Him binds and looses? Church is given the power to make decisions of what to bind and what to loose. [Cf. Matthew 16:18; 18:18].



JoeT

 

[A new day]

How would you know if they are born from above or from below.



JoeT

Before believing the gospel message each and every individual is spiritually dead. When a person puts their faith and trust in Jesus' complete work and finished work on the cross and resurrection, the Holy Spirit comes into a person's life, and the person is spiritually born again, by the work of the Holy Spirit. This is the meaning of being born again, from above. NOT the church, no human can cause another human to be born again.

We can see the Holy Spirits work within a person, because that person will display a life that shows it has been regenerated.

 

[JoeT]

Unlike Mary, QE's mother was married to the King of England.

And yes, it is the "RCC Mary". Your goddess is nothing at all like the girl from Galilee. In your vain imaginations, you have given your Mary honors, glories and abilities which belong to God alone.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"

Mary was the Handmaiden of the Lord. Furthermore, Mary is the Mother of the Lord. Like Queen Elisabeth she is Queen Mother, and since she and her Lord are in heaven she is Queen Mother of Heaven.

JoeT

 

[A new day]

Mary was the Handmaiden of the Lord. Furthermore, Mary is the Mother of the Lord. Like Queen Elisabeth she is Queen Mother, and since she and her Lord are in heaven she is Queen Mother of Heaven.

JoeT

Keep posting this; it proves our point that mary is indeed being worshiped. Because no where in the gospels or epistles is she called queen mother. As a matter of fact, Jesus, when addressing her... says.... "woman", NOT mother, NOT queen mother... BUT "WOMAN". Yes saying "woman" is a polite form of address, but Jesus downplayed any possibility of her being seen as anything more than an ordinary woman. For He quickly directed everyone's attention on God.

 

[mica]

Mary was the Handmaiden of the Lord. Furthermore, Mary is the Mother of the Lord. Like Queen Elisabeth she is Queen Mother, and since she and her Lord are in heaven she is Queen Mother of Heaven.

JoeT

re-read those verses in Jeremiah.

 

[4Him]

How would you know if they are born from above or from below?

By their fruits you shall know them….

Where in Scripture does it say 4Him binds and looses? Church is given the power to make decisions of what to bind and what to loose. [Cf. Matthew 16:18; 18:18].



JoeT

The church is all born from above. Not your apostate religious organization.