This is where I see the problem. Too many members accept the whole "Mormonism" nonsense. Literally for decades (going on 30 years), I've been arguing against using that term (with critics as well as members). It's a secular term, and encompasses secular thinking...the whole "culture" aspect, which I detest. I'm not a "Mormon" (I don't know what that is), nor do I adhere to "Mormonism". These are labels that came about as a form of derision from the critics at the start (and is still done so today), which Joseph Smith and the early Saints refused to associate themselves with. By accepting such terms, members fall into the whole "Mormon culture" (not drinking caffeine or watching R-rated movies, only dating return missionaries, getting married at 18/19, living in Utah, going to BYU [and all the ridiculous rules that come with it], and so forth), while failing to see the eternal perspective. This is Christ's Church, His Gospel, and He was sent by God, the Father to redeem Mankind from the Fall. It's not about who dresses the nicest, who has the biggest family, who has the better calling, who went on a mission (I went to teach, not because I was "expected" to...in fact, I waited to go until after I went into the military), or who is more "righteous" or "worthy"... it's about proving we will do all things whatsoever God commands us, to learn good from evil, and to bring as many souls to Christ as we can. Focusing on being a "Mormon" completely loses sight of this.
The LDS Church preaches of Christ
- Thread starter Gordon
- Start date
The Fall. We are saved from death (physical) and Hell (Justification). This is not the same as Eternal Life (dwelling with God).
Anything printed that has "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on it is considered "doctrine".
These are doctrine....though the definition of "procreation" would be up for debate.
This is also doctrine.
They have.
Approaching Latter-day Saint Doctrine
Much misunderstanding about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints revolves around its doctrine.
newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org
Absolute nonsense.
Read my posts here. I addressed how your subject here is a fallacy and vain attempt to associate Mormonism with Christianity. You knew you were going to get objection from others by doing so, which is why you added the "disclaimer" in the thread. This is a discussion board and people will discuss what they want about a subject, and clarifying that Mormonism believes in and teaches a different Jesus and a different Gospel is a major subject discussion here, maybe the most critical points to make to an investigator.
I have heard talks all over the board in my years as a Mormon. I remember one talk by good ol sister Moser about woman hood while crying, she was comparing here dog "Kizzy" coming into heat as a young woman blossoming and becoming a woman. And yes I have heard talks about gardening and vacations.
You know as well as I do, that a good talk in sacrament is by someone that knows how to speak publicly and hopefully has a since of humor, or it will be a long 10-20 minutes or so. But I hear it is much more tolerable these days in that the church supplies wi-fi and you can fake like you are looking at scripture and surf or candy crush during a boring talk.
You are making it sound like all sacraments talks and speakers are Paul Dunn's (less the fibs). Google LDS living and you can find ways to get through a boring Sacrament. One of the best ways I found was to play a game in my mind of trying to catch the Bishop of counselors nodding off. The last time I attended a Sacrament meeting was about ten years ago was in a Hobble Creek ward. I took my mother, on of my cousins sons was giving his return talk. It was actually a interesting talk as I remember it. But one man didn't think so, he snored through most of the service. After the service I asked my mom who the heck that was snoring and she laughed and told me it was Billy Casper, the famous hall of fame pro golfer, and that he always sleeps through the talks.
The one thing that sticks out about the service was that the Bishopric needs to learn how to smile and have a little Joy in their countenance.... I had forgotten how smug a service can be.
Sermons are in the Bible by apostles and in those days they did not have "Bibles" and sermons were the mode of teaching, almost 100%. The BoM is even full of 19th century sermons.
But yes Bishops are not supposed to preach the Gospel, which was my point. Paul was clear a Pastor, Elder, Bishop....was the preach the Word.
As far as manuals that is all correlated material so the church has control of what people learn and when they should learn it.
LOL...did you read your link? Okay tell me how that "commentary" settles what LDS doctrine is? Who wrote the article?They have.
Approaching Latter-day Saint Doctrine
Much misunderstanding about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints revolves around its doctrine.
Summarize for me, from the commentary, how is "what is doctrine settled?"
No really. The leadership can even be open and honest with the folks. You have 15 prophets, seer's, and revelators, 15....and the folks, like Aaron wrote, are left guessing. You have Ralf here denying that Joseph Smith used a seer stone to translate the Book of Mormon. You have certain groups within the church that are denying Joseph practiced polygamy. I could go on and on, but wouldn't you think that at least one of these 15 men could sit down and do a honest Q&A, and maybe a bullet point memo or two on some of the questions that are out there. How about there putting on a golf shirt and sit down with the folks and be real?
Last edited:
dberrie2020
Super Member
So--could you post for us what you believe is found in the Biblical NT--which isn't found in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as far as salvational doctrines go?
The fact is--the theology of the critics here has precious little in common with the Biblical text:
Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mormons.
organgrinder
Well-known member
Dberrie only knows how to post questions --usually the same ones-- over and over thinking he has actually answered something. That his MO.
Richard7
Well-known member
Yep, lost sheep of the fold good buddy....
Richard7
Well-known member
Just a reminder to Markk, he did say almost everyone.... chuckle.
What about apostates and critics. There are most likely more apostates and critics counted in the 16 or 17 million than those identify as Mormon...maybe double. So to my point the leaders are not honest with their membership count.
And?
I have seen you quote GBH saying we do have different Jesus....do you still feel that way?
“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.'” (LDS Church News Week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7).
Since when is not discussing what Markk wants to discuss a "fallacy"...? ?
You are persistent in trying to derail threads, I'll give you that.
This is what's known as confirmation bias. Sure, you can find a bunch of random statements, that aren't about Jesus, and declare "proof" that He isn't spoken of....yet you ignore all the relevant statements to the contrary. I'm sure out of all the years, and hundreds of talks...sister Moser talked about her dog once ?
That's his problem. You admitted the talk was interesting.
Your point?
No, bishops, according to Paul, were to "take care of the church".
Like from your pastor...?
Last edited:
Did you??
The article literally defined doctrine. It is from the Church Newsroom, posted on the Church's official website, and approved by the First Presidency. I seriously don't know what else I can offer you...
They have. They even made a concerted effort to put out the Gospel Topic Essays.
That's on them. The information is right in front of their faces.
They have... multiple times.
Where on earth are you getting your ridiculous stats from?? ?
LOL, well not from the church. And again you don't know, you can only guess. And what is sad you know darn well the church knows, yet the hide that information from you. In order for me to say they are ridiculous, you must first no the stats...so CFR please?
If you want a honest attempt start here.... https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/active-membership/
And here.... https://www.mormonstories.org/portfolio-items/mormon-church-in-decline-in-utah/
I haven't read the former yet it is new, the latter is great, I hope you take the time to listen to it and look at the stat sheets.
First who is the author?
If it is clear, articulate what doctrine is? My reading of the commentary that was written by who knows who is all over the place. It reads that it changes, it up to personal interpretations, and one needs to understand how to approach it and examine it.
Tell me in your own words what you think LDS doctrine is?
Gordon you get upset because I don't agree with your post? Maybe you should just do a blog and don't allow comments.
Christians believe that the LDS church worships and believe in another Jesus. GBH and I certainly did believe that us Mormons believed in another Jesus. It is just the way it is. And you coming here wanting to just ignore that is weak. There needs to be a definition of terms....right?
And believe me, after being a Christian for 33 years, after 33 years as a Mormon....again believe me, there is a difference in who is the focus. In Mormonism "the church" comes before Jesus. Joseph comes before Jesus, the BoM comes before Jesus, and even the family unit comes before Jesus in many ways. It is just the way it is.
That's what you're doing. You claimed it was "most likely" that the number of apostates/critics among the membership are "maybe double" than active members. Such a claim is absolutely baseless, and absurd. You then link one site that claims the number of active members have "dropped" by "5-19 percent"....then another, that states members no longer make up the majority of population in Utah. So? Many of the inactives I know are neither "apostate" nor a "critic".