The new birth and nature

[SteveB]

In talking to an highly religious individual in John 3, Jesus told the man,
You must be born again.
The guy of course didn't know what he was talking about and so he asked him- what? Am I supposed to climb back into my mother's womb and be born all over again?!?
To which Jesus responded,
No. That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is Spirit.
Don't be surprised when I say to you...

You must be born of the Spirit.

God has explicitly provided us with a means to be wholly restored to him.

In Ezekiel 36, verses 25 through 27, we see an excellent description given to us exactly what the new birth is.

Eze 36:25-27 WEB 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes. You will keep my ordinances and do them.

God pours clean water on us.
God cleanses us from our sin and false beliefs.

God gives us a new heart.
God gives us a new spirit.
God removes the stony heart.
God gives us a new heart of flesh.
God gives us his Spirit to cause us to live in agreement with his ways.

Each of these things are impossible for us to achieve. Only God himself has the power and authority to do this.

Jesus said that the things which are impossible for us are possible for God.


Our connection with God is restored and we are given everything we need through Jesus Christ to live a life that honors God.
And upon our death, we will be welcomed by God into his everlasting Kingdom.

 

[Tiburon]

In talking to an highly religious individual in John 3, Jesus told the man,
You must be born again.
The guy of course didn't know what he was talking about and so he asked him- what? Am I supposed to climb back into my mother's womb and be born all over again?!?
To which Jesus responded,
No. That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of the spirit is Spirit.
Don't be surprised when I say to you...

You must be born of the Spirit.

God has explicitly provided us with a means to be wholly restored to him.

In Ezekiel 36, verses 25 through 27, we see an excellent description given to us exactly what the new birth is.

Eze 36:25-27 WEB 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes. You will keep my ordinances and do them.

God pours clean water on us.
God cleanses us from our sin and false beliefs.

God gives us a new heart.
God gives us a new spirit.
God removes the stony heart.
God gives us a new heart of flesh.
God gives us his Spirit to cause us to live in agreement with his ways.

Each of these things are impossible for us to achieve. Only God himself has the power and authority to do this.

Jesus said that the things which are impossible for us are possible for God.


Our connection with God is restored and we are given everything we need through Jesus Christ to live a life that honors God.
And upon our death, we will be welcomed by God into his everlasting Kingdom.

And your evidence that this is the reality of the situation?

 

[SteveB]

And your evidence that this is the reality of the situation?

Historical documentation.

 

[Tiburon]

Historical documentation.

Historical documentation gives us the writings it does nothing to validate their content.

 

[SteveB]

Historical documentation gives us the writings it does nothing to validate their content.

Well, then I'd say that you should simply do what Jesus said.

I've always believed that firsthand knowledge and experience is the best way to learn for yourself.

Unless you're not actually interested in knowing the truth. Then you should just wait until you die, then you'll find out the hard way that you screwed yourself.

Hope you choose Jesus.
Eternity is a long time to learn.

 

[Tiburon]

Well, then I'd say that you should simply do what Jesus said.

Why? What would prompt me to "simply do what Jesus said"?

 

[SteveB]

Why? What would prompt me to "simply do what Jesus said"?

You'll learn the truth and find that eternity actually is real, and you can then know God and enjoy eternal life.

 

[Tiburon]

You'll learn the truth and find that eternity actually is real, and you can then know God and enjoy eternal life.

Didn't work the first few times.

 

[SteveB]

Didn't work the first few times.

I wouldn't know.
You never actually detailed it so it can be examined and then corrected by the truth.
So, it just tells me that you don't actually want to know the truth.

 

[Tiburon]

I wouldn't know.
You never actually detailed it so it can be examined and then corrected by the truth.
So, it just tells me that you don't actually want to know the truth.

I have detailed it and as usual you just dismissed it with your usual "blaming the victim" contrivance.

 

[SteveB]

I have detailed it and as usual you just dismissed it with your usual "blaming the victim" contrivance.

Failure to engage YHVH himself is the fault of the person doing so.

The problem here is that your description is vague enough to raise numerous questions.
Since I have asked you to give greater detail and you refused, you have left the ball in your own court.

So, until and unless you do so, the culpability for your beliefs is yours, and nobody else's.

 

[Tiburon]

Failure to engage YHVH himself is the fault of the person doing so.

The problem here is that your description is vague enough to raise numerous questions.
Since I have asked you to give greater detail and you refused, you have left the ball in your own court.

So, until and unless you do so, the culpability for your beliefs is yours, and nobody else's.

How does one engage YHVH? Is there some secret method that I failed to adhere to?
The problem is your endless efforts to weasel around the fact that your God didn't show.
Just because the Biblical authors put words into the mouth of Jesus, doesn't make them true.

 

[SteveB]

How does one engage YHVH?

Talk to him. Read the bible. Seek him with your whole heart.
He said that in the day you seek him with your whole heart, he will be found by you.

Learn, and keep the teachings of Jesus. He said that if you do so, you will show that you love him and you will be loved by God and they will come and make their home with you.

And in all honesty, I can't think of a more comprehensive and compelling way to know him than to live with him in your daily life. I continue to be astonished by the ways he demonstrates himself to me, and my wife.

Is there some secret method that I failed to adhere to?

I have no idea. You've never provided enough details, and been willing to take the time to discuss it with me for me to know. But what little information you have given, you stopped long before you learned just how real he is, and can be.

The problem is your endless efforts to weasel around the fact that your God didn't show.

I'm not the one who is going to spend their eternity in the lake of fire because they were too lazy and unwilling to take the time to learn the truth.
So, if you actually think that blaming me/others for your own bias is going to win you favors, you will lose. And it's not about me. This is entire about you and Jesus. If you don't actually care, then stop wasting your life on this forum. As I've stated several times before to several other people...
Go out and live what life you have remaining. If you're right, upon your death, that'll be it.
But if the bible is true and right, then upon your death you will awaken to the worst imaginable nightmare ever, and it'll never end. It'll just keep getting worse and worse.
Forever.

Are you sure that's what you want?

Just because the Biblical authors put words into the mouth of Jesus, doesn't make them true.

And just because you reject the fact that the bible actually recorded the true words of Jesus doesn't make them untrue.

It just means that you are committing suicide.

 

[Tiburon]

Talk to him. Read the bible. Seek him with your whole heart.
He said that in the day you seek him with your whole heart, he will be found by you.

The Bible says that. I haven't found it to be the case.

Learn, and keep the teachings of Jesus. He said that if you do so, you will show that you love him and you will be loved by God and they will come and make their home with you.

And in all honesty, I can't think of a more comprehensive and compelling way to know him than to live with him in your daily life. I continue to be astonished by the ways he demonstrates himself to me, and my wife.

The Bible says that. I haven't found it to be the case.
Can you give some examples of the ways he demonstrates himself?

I have no idea. You've never provided enough details, and been willing to take the time to discuss it with me for me to know. But what little information you have given, you stopped long before you learned just how real he is, and can be.

I don't know how much you want. Do you need to know what I was wearing and what I'd had for breakfast?
I have provided details. You just dismiss them.

I'm not the one who is going to spend their eternity in the lake of fire because they were too lazy and unwilling to take the time to learn the truth.
So, if you actually think that blaming me/others for your own bias is going to win you favors, you will lose. And it's not about me. This is entire about you and Jesus. If you don't actually care, then stop wasting your life on this forum. As I've stated several times before to several other people...
Go out and live what life you have remaining. If you're right, upon your death, that'll be it.
But if the bible is true and right, then upon your death you will awaken to the worst imaginable nightmare ever, and it'll never end. It'll just keep getting worse and worse.
Forever.

Are you sure that's what you want?

And just because you reject the fact that the bible actually recorded the true words of Jesus doesn't make them untrue.

It just means that you are committing suicide.

If there is a God then he surely knows the honesty of my disbelief.
If he still sends me to hell there's nothing I can do about it. I can't make myself believe something that I don't.

 

[SteveB]

The Bible says that. I haven't found it to be the case.

This is exactly why I'd say that a further, and deeper examination of what you say you've done is necessary.

Jesus said that unless we come to him as little children, we shall by no means enter the Kingdom of God.
So, it's pretty clear that this is simple enough for children to succeed at.

So let's start there.
If a child can successfully interact with and actually meet Jesus, why would you not succeed at it?
A matter of scepticism?
Here's the initial prayer of a Soviet atheist who successfully connected with God and ultimately became a pastor, who later experienced severe persecution because of his faith in Jesus.

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

We then have plenty of other people who have engaged Jesus on his terms and likewise succeeded in actually meeting him.
They weren't just church attendees, who followed a bunch of religious rules and regulations.

They experienced Jesus in exactly the way defined in the bible.

The Bible says that. I haven't found it to be the case.
Can you give some examples of the ways he demonstrates himself?

It's all contained in the bible.
We enjoy peace with God.
He's the friend who sticks closer than a brother.
He's given us everything we need to live in agreement with him and his ways.
He gives us a new nature on the inside. I.e., we read in 2 Corinthians 5 that we who are in Christ are new creations, old things have passed away, behold! Everything has become new.
We're given the righteousness of YHVH.
We're adopted by God as sons and daughters.
Jesus becomes our brother.
He enjoins us to bring all our troubles, struggles, frustrations, anxieties, fears, etc.... to him, because he cares for us. He then states-- if we do this, he will give us his peace, which surpasses our capacity to concoct for ourselves.
He then states-- if you focus your thinking on pure, righteous, true, lovely, pure, holy, just, honorable and praiseworthy things, God himself will be with you.
He provides for all our needs. By delighting ourselves in Him, he will give us the desire of our hearts.

He gives us a new heart of flesh and a new spirit. He removes the old heart of flesh. He gives us his Holy Spirit to empower our new lives. And to act as a deposit/guarantee/pledge of our inheritance in Christ.
He also said he would teach, guide, instruct, and direct our lives and learning to follow Jesus.
He further stated that nothing in life we attempt, even if we fail, will be wasted in benefiting us.
Everything, no matter how painful, will be used to conform us to be like Jesus.
Then, once we die, we go to be with Jesus.

So.... these things and much, much, much, much, much, .............., much more are the benefits of coming to Jesus and following him.

I don't know how much you want. Do you need to know what I was wearing and what I'd had for breakfast?

Nope.
But your expectations, your actions/practices, your applying the teachings of Jesus to your life,...

As stated... Jesus made it simple enough for a child to succeed in following Jesus.
So, if you actually want to be taken seriously in your claims, examining your claims is going to be part of it.
And due to what I'd consider a private matter, you're more than welcome to pm me and we can discuss it through the conversation tool the forum has.

I have provided details. You just dismiss them.

No. I explained that there were clear criteria to following Jesus.
You're the one who keeps saying that you didn't experience success in following Jesus and as such, think it's a sham.

If there is a God then he surely knows the honesty of my disbelief.

Indeed he does.
I think you need to seriously consider that your unbelief, no matter how "sincere, honest and genuine" it is, is a guarantee to spend your eternity in the lake of fire.

Take a good, hard, long look at the following statement.


Rev 21:8 WEB But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

So... yes! God does indeed know the honesty of your unbelief.
This just makes it all the more important to deal with it and engage him.

It'd seriously suck if you keep telling yourself that you honestly just don't believe, and then you die, and end up in hell.... all because you just didn't want to take the time to learn to engage Jesus.

This isn't just going to be a few minutes of serious anguish and misery.

It's going to last for more time than you could possibly fathom.
You've read my comments about this before.
Trillions upon trillions upon trillions of eins, and then only a picosecond of eternity has passed. All of it in pain.

So, you really need to ask yourself.... what do you want for yourself? Would you rather spend your eternity in absolute joy, satisfaction and happiness, or just spend it in misery you cannot escape?

Quite frankly, I'd rather spend mine in joy, satisfaction and happiness.

If he still sends me to hell there's nothing I can do about it.

Actually there is! This is exactly why Jesus came.

As the rest of us who've met Jesus have done... we came to Jesus and engaged him on his terms.
And we didn't stop until we got the answer.

I can't make myself believe something that I don't.

I never said you had to.

I, like that Soviet atheist, just asked him to demonstrate himself to us.

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

for me, it was a lot simpler.
God, are you for real?
is this Jesus stuff I'm hearing about for real, or just another pile of religious bs?

if you actually do go to hell, it'll be by your own beliefs.

he's explicitly stated,

2Pe 3:9 WEB The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Tiburon]

This is exactly why I'd say that a further, and deeper examination of what you say you've done is necessary.

I came to God not as a sceptic but as a believer.
I answered an alter call at a youth fellowship camp and stepped to up confess myself a sinner ask God to forgive me, to come into my life and be my saviour.
I had been raised Christian and had never seriously considered the possibility that God was not real.

Jesus said that unless we come to him as little children, we shall by no means enter the Kingdom of God.
So, it's pretty clear that this is simple enough for children to succeed at.

So let's start there.
If a child can successfully interact with and actually meet Jesus, why would you not succeed at it?
A matter of scepticism?
Here's the initial prayer of a Soviet atheist who successfully connected with God and ultimately became a pastor, who later experienced severe persecution because of his faith in Jesus.

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

We then have plenty of other people who have engaged Jesus on his terms and likewise succeeded in actually meeting him.
They weren't just church attendees, who followed a bunch of religious rules and regulations.

They experienced Jesus in exactly the way defined in the bible.

I, however, have not experienced Jesus as expounded in the Bible

It's all contained in the bible.
We enjoy peace with God.
He's the friend who sticks closer than a brother.
He's given us everything we need to live in agreement with him and his ways.
He gives us a new nature on the inside. I.e., we read in 2 Corinthians 5 that we who are in Christ are new creations, old things have passed away, behold! Everything has become new.
We're given the righteousness of YHVH.
We're adopted by God as sons and daughters.
Jesus becomes our brother.
He enjoins us to bring all our troubles, struggles, frustrations, anxieties, fears, etc.... to him, because he cares for us. He then states-- if we do this, he will give us his peace, which surpasses our capacity to concoct for ourselves.
He then states-- if you focus your thinking on pure, righteous, true, lovely, pure, holy, just, honorable and praiseworthy things, God himself will be with you.
He provides for all our needs. By delighting ourselves in Him, he will give us the desire of our hearts.

He gives us a new heart of flesh and a new spirit. He removes the old heart of flesh. He gives us his Holy Spirit to empower our new lives. And to act as a deposit/guarantee/pledge of our inheritance in Christ.
He also said he would teach, guide, instruct, and direct our lives and learning to follow Jesus.
He further stated that nothing in life we attempt, even if we fail, will be wasted in benefiting us.
Everything, no matter how painful, will be used to conform us to be like Jesus.
Then, once we die, we go to be with Jesus.

So.... these things and much, much, much, much, much, .............., much more are the benefits of coming to Jesus and following him.

Sounds like nothing that is not the fruit of your own expectations.

Nope.
But your expectations, your actions/practices, your applying the teachings of Jesus to your life,...

As stated... Jesus made it simple enough for a child to succeed in following Jesus.
So, if you actually want to be taken seriously in your claims, examining your claims is going to be part of it.
And due to what I'd consider a private matter, you're more than welcome to pm me and we can discuss it through the conversation tool the forum has.

No. I explained that there were clear criteria to following Jesus.
You're the one who keeps saying that you didn't experience success in following Jesus and as such, think it's a sham.

Of course you think it's a sham.
You cannot for one moment entertain the idea that what you believe is not true.
Or that others don't have the same experience as you when seeking God.

Indeed he does.
I think you need to seriously consider that your unbelief, no matter how "sincere, honest and genuine" it is, is a guarantee to spend your eternity in the lake of fire.

Take a good, hard, long look at the following statement.


Rev 21:8 WEB But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

So... yes! God does indeed know the honesty of your unbelief.
This just makes it all the more important to deal with it and engage him.

It'd seriously suck if you keep telling yourself that you honestly just don't believe, and then you die, and end up in hell.... all because you just didn't want to take the time to learn to engage Jesus.

This isn't just going to be a few minutes of serious anguish and misery.

It's going to last for more time than you could possibly fathom.
You've read my comments about this before.
Trillions upon trillions upon trillions of eins, and then only a picosecond of eternity has passed. All of it in pain.

So, you really need to ask yourself.... what do you want for yourself? Would you rather spend your eternity in absolute joy, satisfaction and happiness, or just spend it in misery you cannot escape?

Quite frankly, I'd rather spend mine in joy, satisfaction and happiness.

Actually there is! This is exactly why Jesus came.

As the rest of us who've met Jesus have done... we came to Jesus and engaged him on his terms.
And we didn't stop until we got the answer.

I never said you had to.

I, like that Soviet atheist, just asked him to demonstrate himself to us.

“God, I know surely that You do not exist. But if perchance You exist, which I contest, it is not my duty to believe in You; it is Your duty to reveal Yourself to me.”

for me, it was a lot simpler.
God, are you for real?
is this Jesus stuff I'm hearing about for real, or just another pile of religious bs?

if you actually do go to hell, it'll be by your own beliefs.

he's explicitly stated,

2Pe 3:9 WEB The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but he is patient with us, not wishing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Yes if I actually do go to hell, it'll be by my own beliefs. And there is nothing I can do about that.

 

[SteveB]

I came to God not as a sceptic but as a believer.

A believer in what? An emotional high?

I answered an alter call at a youth fellowship camp and stepped to up confess myself a sinner ask God to forgive me, to come into my life and be my saviour.

Then according to John 6, Jesus did exactly that.

You however apparently stopped, and didn't follow through on your end.
Jesus is indeed the savior of all who come to him. He's also Lord of all.
Did you think about this?

I had been raised Christian and had never seriously considered the possibility that God was not real.

So, family ties make it secure?
As a former pastor once said, God doesn't have any grandchildren. You're either his child or not.

I, however, have not experienced Jesus as expounded in the Bible

Then whatever you did do at that camp, you didn't repent and believe the gospel of Jesus.

Jesus was quite clear about this.

Joh 6:37-40 WEB 37 All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

He then states--

Joh 8:31-36 WEB 31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s offspring, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How do you say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most certainly I tell you, everyone who commits sin is the bondservant of sin. 35 A bondservant doesn’t live in the house forever. A son remains forever. 36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Based on your own description above, you recited a few words, but never did your part.
Jesus did his part, but you didn't follow through with yours.
This is why you never experienced what you thought you were supposed to.
This is not an accusation. But an observation, based solely on your words, and the bible.

Sounds like nothing that is not the fruit of your own expectations.

I had no expectations.
I had absolutely no idea what I was to expect. Either there would be an answer to my question or not. If there was, then I knew something would change in my life. But if not, I'd walk away and my life would be over.

Of course you think it's a sham.
You cannot for one moment entertain the idea that what you believe is not true.

Odd how experience works.
Yet here you are, in your lack of experience, and you can't imagine that atheism is the sham.

Or that others don't have the same experience as you when seeking God.

When it comes to Jesus, YHVH says that he will make himself knowable to us. He didn't state the specifics of what that experience would be.

Yes if I actually do go to hell, it'll be by my own beliefs. And there is nothing I can do about that.

Actually, there is.

But you have to decide whether you want to know the truth or not.

You attended a church camp as a younger person.
You prayed a prayer that you believe was supposed to accomplish something.
You then walked away without following through.

Weren't you ever given the follow through instructions by the camp counselors?

 

[Tiburon]

A believer in what? An emotional high?

A believer that there was an actual God.

Then according to John 6, Jesus did exactly that.

You however apparently stopped, and didn't follow through on your end.
Jesus is indeed the savior of all who come to him. He's also Lord of all.
Did you think about this?

No, I didn't just stop. I stuck with it for years. You are just looking for excuses.
Where does the Bible say anything about following through on my end?
Sounds like you believe in salvation through works. Not through faith.

So, family ties make it secure?
As a former pastor once said, God doesn't have any grandchildren. You're either his child or not.
Then whatever you did do at that camp, you didn't repent and believe the gospel of Jesus.

No, my family environment meant I was raised in a bubble of belief.
I didn't come to God as a hardened cynic with the idea that it was all BS.
"you didn't repent and believe the gospel of Jesus." If that's what you need to believe, to deny my experience and cling to your belief in the infallibility of the Bible.

Jesus was quite clear about this.

Joh 6:37-40 WEB 37 All those whom the Father gives me will come to me. He who comes to me I will in no way throw out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. 39 This is the will of my Father who sent me, that of all he has given to me I should lose nothing, but should raise him up at the last day. 40 This is the will of the one who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

He then states--

Joh 8:31-36 WEB 31 Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. 32 You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.” 33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s offspring, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How do you say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most certainly I tell you, everyone who commits sin is the bondservant of sin. 35 A bondservant doesn’t live in the house forever. A son remains forever. 36 If therefore the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.

Based on your own description above, you recited a few words, but never did your part.
Jesus did his part, but you didn't follow through with yours.
This is why you never experienced what you thought you were supposed to.
This is not an accusation. But an observation, based solely on your words, and the bible.

If that's what you need to believe to cling to your belief in the infallibility of the Bible.

I had no expectations.
I had absolutely no idea what I was to expect. Either there would be an answer to my question or not. If there was, then I knew something would change in my life. But if not, I'd walk away and my life would be over.

"my life would be over." So no pressure then.
You did have some expectation and
some idea what to expect.
You "found" exactly what you needed.

Odd how experience works.

Yes it is.

When it comes to Jesus, YHVH says that he will make himself knowable to us. He didn't state the specifics of what that experience would be.
Actually, there is.
But you have to decide whether you want to know the truth or not.

You attended a church camp as a younger person.
You prayed a prayer that you believe was supposed to accomplish something.
You then walked away without following through.
Weren't you ever given the follow through instructions by the camp counselors?

People said that YHVH will make himself knowable to us. People like you.
People like me haven't found that to be the case.
Keep finding excuses for why I didn't experience what your book claims.

 

[The Pixie]

Well, then I'd say that you should simply do what Jesus said.

I've always believed that firsthand knowledge and experience is the best way to learn for yourself.

Unless you're not actually interested in knowing the truth. Then you should just wait until you die, then you'll find out the hard way that you screwed yourself.

Hope you choose Jesus.
Eternity is a long time to learn.

That works fine for you, Steve. You were taught the Bible is true from a young age, and so just blindly accept it, and blithely call it "the truth" without the need to actually think about whether it is actually true or not.

We are not like that. We cannot just believe something is true without good reason to. We cannot "simply do what Jesus said" because our reason tells us it is wrong. We can no more choose to "simply do what Jesus said" than you can choose to believe elves exist.

We point this out to you time and time again, and all you offer in return is the threat of eternal punishment at the hands of the God you apparently love.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

That works fine for you, Steve. You were taught the Bible is true from a young age, and so just blindly accept it, and blithely call it "the truth" without the need to actually think about whether it is actually true or not.

Oh yeah? Well, I was NOT taught the Bible is true from a young age and I did NOT blindly accept it but rather accepted it with widely opened eyes as an adult, and I thoughtfully, not blithely accept it as revealing Truth.