The rapture/the great falling away

JosephLeo said:
There must be someone that will deliver these plagues, like the plagues of Egypt. I'm still unsure about this, thus I state it as something symbolic, maybe they are symbolic of 4 angels or prophets, I don't know.
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Personally I believe there is a little bit of both...Is the rider of the white horse riding a horse or a white UN vehicle?
 
Rachel Redux said:
I read the entire post. I read the scripture that said,
"10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world."
But what about Revelation 12:14?

Jesus says his people will be protected...not removed.

Rev. 14 But she was given two wings like those of a great eagle so she could fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness. There she would be cared for and protected from the dragon for a time, times, and half a time.
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"testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.""...do Christians belong to the world?
 
Rachel Redux said:
Here's my concern. Most Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. I, personally, believe in a Mid-tribulation rapture.
Scripture promises that we won't have to endure the wrath of God but God's wrath is the seven last plagues. The first seven are Satan's wrath. Rev. 12:12 We'll probably have to go through them.

I fear that when Believers aren't raptured before the tribulation begins, it will cause a great falling away. I wish the church wouldn't promise Christians that they won't have to see any of the tribulation.
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How would the Christians in Russia, or China in days past know they weren't in the "Tribulation"? they were being persecuted and murdered by their governments, after all.

Personally, I'm a Pan-Tribber. It'll all "Pan out" just like God planned it, and "Eschatology" never has been anything but Rank Speculation at best.

And besides I still have my copy of 88 reasons that the rapture will be in 1988. Proves beyond a doubt "scripturally" that we'll be OUTTA HERE in 1988!!!! Except -
 
Bob Carabbio said:
How would the Christians in Russia, or China in days past know they weren't in the "Tribulation"? they were being persecuted and murdered by their governments, after all.

Personally, I'm a Pan-Tribber. It'll all "Pan out" just like God planned it, and "Eschatology" never has been anything but Rank Speculation at best.

And besides I still have my copy of 88 reasons that the rapture will be in 1988. Proves beyond a doubt "scripturally" that we'll be OUTTA HERE in 1988!!!! Except -
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I remember that....
I also remember 1981, 83, 94, .....

I'm now learning to follow Jesus and let him take me when it comes.

Luke 21:34-36 seems to be the punchline for this one.

Luk 21:34-36 WEB 34 “So be careful, or your hearts will be loaded down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that day will come on you suddenly. 35 For it will come like a snare on all those who dwell on the surface of all the earth. 36 Therefore be watchful all the time, praying that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will happen, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

My job is to pray always that I may be accounted worthy to escape all these things, and to stand before the Son of Man. ??
 
GeneZ said:
The Lord had Noah get into the Ark when the earth was only half flooded = Mid Trib Rapture.
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Half flooded? How? Won't the smaller animals drown when they enter the ark?

The ark is like a rapture like event that happens at the very end when every warning was exhausted. I'm not sure whether Noah had warned about the flood to the people on Earth, but I guess the ark itself and animals going in is sure enough to alert everyone the impending doom.
 
SteveB said:
I get that the whole symbology thing of Revelation has taken centuries of building, but something that has arisen of late is that John, the writer of Revelation, was a Jewish/Hebrew man. Considering that his dad, Zebedee had connections with the high priest, he may have had levitical training.

Topical Bible: Zebedee

biblehub.com

Remember, according to the law, it was incumbent on Jewish parents to train their children in the law.

As such, what we view today as symbolism, they would have learned out of the law and prophets.

In reading the laws and prophets over the years, I'm seeing plenty of evidence of this theme.

So, instead of trying to make it out to be more symbolic, read the prophets.

They're not as intimidating as they have been made out to be. There's actually some really great stuff in them.
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It is symbolic to me only because the true meaning may reveal itself in the future, thus no longer symbolic but reality.
 
Rachel Redux said:
I read the entire post. I read the scripture that said,
"10 “Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world."
But what about Revelation 12:14?

Jesus says his people will be protected...not removed.

Rev. 14 But she was given two wings like those of a great eagle so she could fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness. There she would be cared for and protected from the dragon for a time, times, and half a time.
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John is talking about the Jewish remnant that was left behind.

Then respond to this:

Who is the Lamb that is described opening the seven seals in Revelation 6 and from whom the men hide their faces from in:

REV 6:

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
 
JosephLeo said:
Half flooded? How? Won't the smaller animals drown when they enter the ark?

The ark is like a rapture like event that happens at the very end when every warning was exhausted. I'm not sure whether Noah had warned about the flood to the people on Earth, but I guess the ark itself and animals going in is sure enough to alert everyone the impending doom.
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I was trying to show the absurdity of the mid-tribulation Rapture concept with that half Noah flood example.

The Ark represented the Faith that we must build that saves us.

"So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Romans 10:17​

All the animals and Noah's family remained dry and untouched by the tribulation/ flood that came after they were inside and it was sealed. .
 
JosephLeo said:
Half flooded? How? Won't the smaller animals drown when they enter the ark?

The ark is like a rapture like event that happens at the very end when every warning was exhausted. I'm not sure whether Noah had warned about the flood to the people on Earth, but I guess the ark itself and animals going in is sure enough to alert everyone the impending doom.
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If I had added a smiley maybe you would have not taken what I said so seriously? It was sarcasm.
 
some view the Rapture as having been previously described as a Mercy

"But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1

"...there shall be a judgment on all. But with the righteous He will make peace; and will protect the elect and mercy shall be on them.” Enoch 1
Rachel Redux said:
I fear that when Believers aren't raptured before the tribulation begins, it will cause a great falling away. I wish the church wouldn't promise Christians that they won't have to see any of the tribulation.
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some also view the "falling away" can be translated as a departure

and some reason for Rapture being to facilitate repentance Daniel 12:1-3 Enoch 50:1-5
 
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I view the Tribulation as probably decades away
and the Rapture having no sign or knowable date (just speculation vis a vis the Tribulation)
2032 might be significant if it's 2000 years after the birth of the Church, but I don't really know
we don't know the hour or the day, but is the Year possible?

with Evangelical teachers talking about the Rapture all the time
I fear that many Christians will be unprepared for whatever might proceed it
 
American Gothic said:
I view the Tribulation as probably decades away
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Probably. There's still a lot yet to happen before we can call ourselves as truly in "the great tribulation."
Also, I don't know how old you are but I know that really young people can't imagine that we're anywhere close to end times.

and the Rapture having no sign or knowable date (just speculation vis a vis the Tribulation)
2032 might be significant if it's 2000 years after the birth of the Church, but I don't really know
we don't know the hour or the day, but is the Year possible?

with Evangelical teachers talking about the Rapture all the time
I fear that many Christians will be unprepared for whatever might proceed it
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Exactly!
 
American Gothic said:
some view the Rapture as having been previously described as a Mercy

"But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life." Jude 1

"...there shall be a judgment on all. But with the righteous He will make peace; and will protect the elect and mercy shall be on them.” Enoch 1

some also view the "falling away" can be translated as a departure

and some reason for Rapture being to facilitate repentance Daniel 12:1-3 Enoch 50:1-5
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Interesting thoughts.
 
Rachel Redux said:
Probably. There's still a lot yet to happen before we can call ourselves as truly in "the great tribulation."
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on this Calendar, there's 4 years now until the start of the last Jubilee (50 years)
Trib would be the last 7 years of that, the Great Trib the last 3 1/2 years

just started a new Year
Passover would be Tues night/Wednesday - I think

Rachel Redux said:
Also, I don't know how old you are
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:)
 
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American Gothic said:
I view the Tribulation as probably decades away
and the Rapture having no sign or knowable date (just speculation vis a vis the Tribulation)
2032 might be significant if it's 2000 years after the birth of the Church, but I don't really know
we don't know the hour or the day, but is the Year possible?

with Evangelical teachers talking about the Rapture all the time
I fear that many Christians will be unprepared for whatever might proceed it
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How long did it take to shut down nations and the economy with the false narratives with the Corona virus plan?

Certain nations already have the credit card under the skin perfected.
https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/swedish-people-are-getting-chip-implants-to-replace-cash-credit-cards/

It did not take long to replace the Twin Towers buildings. And. that was unplanned. The Temple in Jerusalem is a lot simpler to construct , and prefabrication is ready waiting in the wings. https://www.israel365news.com/83576/stop-waiting-third-temple-come-heaven-start-building/
 
I think it's nice to know when the rapture is going to happen. But, isn't it the dead are also going be raptured as well? Luckily for them, they don't have to argue about the rapture and stuff. They just wake up one day and be raptured to heaven.
 
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