where is this 'Church' you call today located?
who are the leaders?
The Role of Mary in the Church of Roman Catholicism
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
who are the leaders?
Bonnie
Super Member
Wherever two or three are gathered in Jesus' name, to worship. The leader of this church is Jesus Christ.
Bonnie
Super Member
I don't understand why this is so hard for you to grasp. Jesus' deity did NOT change when He was Incarnated in Mary's womb. He took on the additional nature of man then, but never ceased to be God.
I didn't say it did.
I agree with this.
I never said Jesus was not always perfect.
No--is what I wrote so hard for you to understand? Jesus is one Person. He is and always was God, the eternal Word of God. At His Incarnation, He took on the additional nature of man, and was without sin. But He never ceased to be God.
You are making this more complicated than necessary, Ram.
It's all spelled out quite simply in the Creed of St. Athanasius. (I think some folks just want to be conrary.)
--Rich
so, do we both agree that Jesus Christ, the God-man, is just ONE DIVINE PERSON and that is God?
even if there are different contradicting beliefs?
Bonnie
Super Member
Yes, unless someone believed some heresy, such as, Jesus is not God but was just a good man. Jesus said the Father is looking for those who worship Him in spirit AND in truth. And that would not be truth.
But again, the church is made up of all true believers, everywhere, who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, for their salvation, great and free.
Bonnie
Super Member
Does Jesus have a human nature or not? As well as the nature of God?
yes, as well as a divine nature but he is a divine person, not a human person nor a divine-human mix.
now answer my question.... do we both agree that Jesus Christ, the God-man, is just ONE DIVINE PERSON and that is God?
not what the bible is saying...
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. eph4: 4-6
RayneBeau
Well-known member
Amen Bonnie and all fellow believers! Let us day by day place ourselves at His feet, and meditate on His words with an eye fixed on Him alone! Let us set ourselves in quiet trust before Him, waiting to hear His holy voice - the still, small voice that is mightier than the storm that breaks the rocks, breathing His life-giving spirit within each of us as He speaks: "Abide in Me." The soul that hears Jesus himself speak the word receives with the word the power to accept and to hold the blessing He offers!
Bonnie
Super Member
Actually, He still has two natures--and human nature isn't divine.
He is the God-Man and is one Person, but He is still the God-man--fully, 100% God and fully, 100% man. ONE person with two natures. His personhood is both divine and human, but He is still not two Persons, but One. HOW He can be like that--I don't know. But then, I don't put God in a box and post limits on what He can do. He can do and be whatever it pleases Him to do and be.
Bonnie
Super Member
And this refers to all who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, for salvation, great and free. That is the "one faith", not your bloated, overgrown, corrupt institution that has been teaching false, man-made doctrines for many centuries.
i will believe your first statement that Jesus is just one person with two natures. But then, you contradict your first statement by saying he has two persons (your statement i highlighted) and then you go back saying he is not two persons, but one. Can't you make up your mind? I do not think one puts God in a box by believing Jesus is the God incarnate (in the flesh).
did you know that jesus being divine and human persons is a result of the nestorian heresy that cannot accept mary as the God-bearer (theotokus/mother of God) and the reason why it was condemned in the council of ephesus?
one Lord and yet the believers in Christ could not agree on the Trinity
one faith and yet the believers in Christ could not agree on what 'faith alone' means
one baptism and yet believers in Christ could not agree in the technical formula of the sacrament and also baptisme takes away sins or not.
what a logic to prove that the church has no visibility at all.
Bonnie said:
And this refers to all who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, for salvation, great and free. That is the "one faith", not your bloated, overgrown, corrupt institution that has been teaching false, man-made doctrines for many centuries.
and Ram says
Ram; Ram; Ram;
it matters not what some sick ole men decided at these councils
called for and overseen by a Roman Emperor
its what Scripture says
ram says
Ram;
Have you never read???
---------------Posters-----------
Those Tares / Bad Fish amongest you Protestants;
do as Paul says
Now why would Paul say that about these Tares planted by the Devil
as Jude also says
pulling them out of the fire;
before its too late
ie:
Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them:
when you get down in the Pig Pen with the Pigs;
ya gonna get dirty
Ram;
don't let it worry you about all these
Bad Fish mixed in with the good
as Christ said
I shall make you fishers of men
The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
and sever the wicked from among the just,
and as it is written
the just shall live by Faith
and Faith commeth by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God
-------------------Posters------------------
as he said
"untill the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
and all the Good have left modern day Sodom
and all thats left are the Bad, and those cast back into the sea
"The Castaways"
and John says
And this refers to all who believe and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and God and Savior, for salvation, great and free. That is the "one faith", not your bloated, overgrown, corrupt institution that has been teaching false, man-made doctrines for many centuries.
and Ram says
Ram; Ram; Ram;
it matters not what some sick ole men decided at these councils
called for and overseen by a Roman Emperor
its what Scripture says
ram says
what a logic to prove that the church has no visibility at all.
Ram;
Have you never read???
1Cor.11:19
For there must be also heresies among you,
that (or for this reason) they which are approved
may be made manifest among you.
---------------Posters-----------
Those Tares / Bad Fish amongest you Protestants;
2Cor.11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus,
whom we have not preached,
or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received,
or another gospel, which ye have not accepted,
ye might well bear with him.
do as Paul says
Now why would Paul say that about these Tares planted by the Devil
Matt.13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest:
and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers,
Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them:
but gather the wheat into my barn.
as Jude also says
Beloved, when I gave all diligence
to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you,
and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith
which was once delivered unto the saints.
...
of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear,
pulling them out of the fire;
hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
pulling them out of the fire;
before its too late
ie:
Gather ye together first the tares,
and bind them in bundles to burn them:
when you get down in the Pig Pen with the Pigs;
ya gonna get dirty
Ram;
don't let it worry you about all these
Bad Fish mixed in with the good
as Christ said
I shall make you fishers of men
the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore,
and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels,
but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world:
the angels shall come forth,
and sever the wicked from among the just,
The Son of man shall send forth his angels,
and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,
and them which do iniquity;
and sever the wicked from among the just,
and as it is written
the just shall live by Faith
and Faith commeth by hearing,
and hearing by the word of God
-------------------Posters------------------
as he said
"untill the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
..
a net,
that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
and all the Good have left modern day Sodom
and all thats left are the Bad, and those cast back into the sea
"The Castaways"
and John says
And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
///
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Bonnie
Super Member
I did no such thing. You are reading something into what I wrote that is not there. He is one Person with two natures--God and man. Reread what I wrote here:
"He is the God-Man and is one Person, but He is still the God-man--fully, 100% God and fully, 100% man. ONE person with two natures. His personhood is both divine and human, but He is still not two Persons, but One."
Post no. 413.
I accept that Mary bore God the Son in His Incarnation. That is no heresy, Nestorian or otherwise.
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Jesus is one person and that is he is a divine person, God.
As God he cannot change and when he became incarnate, he did not change to a divine-human mix, he remained still a divine person but this time with two natures, divine and human.
mary bore a divine person in her womb... not a heresy
mary bore a divine-human mix in her womb... is a heresy