Tongues shall cease. - 1 Cor 13:8

[Mikey1967]

edit You are just playing right? You cannot not contextually misunderstand verse 10 that bad. Or are you simply a wolf that is send to try to lay false doctrine? Paul setting up the need need for a spiritual language by explaining the need for interpretation from a natural standpoint does not mean it is a earthly language. No one understands them. That means it is not an earthly language or someone would understand. Really, is this a joke? edit

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I say this respectfully, all the important information we need in regards to the things of God is in His Word. Also, if He had anything outside the Word that He wanted us to know He would have it spoken in an intelligible manner for all to understand without a middleman, not some super secret incoherent language that the speaker themselves doesn’t even know..makes no sense. If it was the case of an assembly of ethnically mixed brethren who speak different languages, that is different and an interpreter would be necessary. But it is safe to say that the vast majority of assemblies today all speak the same language.

The Book of Acts makes it so obvious that ‘tongues’ refers to actual ethnic languages. Paul’s wording in 1 Corinthians 14:10 ‘in the world’ makes it clear that the passage is referring to actual earthly languages.

Of course, God isn't a "One Trick Pony" no matter how much you want Him to be.

What I've run into, running with Pentecostal, and CHarismatic crowds over the last 50+ years is:

Tongues in private usage as a "Prayer language" (the way the manifest for me).
Tongues manifested in Church meetings which nobody understood, followed by Interpetation by one or more people. Occasionally, I've been the Interpreter.
Tongues manifested in Church, and understood by someone present, AND Interpreted, and the interpretation agreed with the understanding listeners.
A spoken manifestation in the common tongue, but also understood in one or more different languages (Miracle of hearing).
Tongues spoken to another individual as a private message to them, and not interpreted for the general congregation.
Entire messages delivered by missionaries in tongues for a congregation in their own language.
And, of course Tongues, and interpretation that were as phony as a $3 bill.

And I note that the common "Cessation" passage ALSO SAYS that "Knowledge" will cease, which Cessationists always skip over.

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

edit You are just playing right? You cannot not contextually misunderstand verse 10 that bad. Or are you simply a wolf that is send to try to lay false doctrine? Paul setting up the need need for a spiritual language by explaining the need for interpretation from a natural standpoint does not mean it is a earthly language. No one understands them. That means it is not an earthly language or someone would understand. Really, is this a joke? edit

Keep on showing that lack of Galatians 5:22-23 spiritual fruits, just only further emphasizing my point.

No fruits of the Spirit = no gifts of the Spirit. So what spirit is the pentecostalist babble really of? The answer is obvious. And the more devout the pentecostalist, the more hateful and angry and intolerant of sound biblical doctrine they are.

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.“
2 Timothy 4:3-4

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

Of course, God isn't a "One Trick Pony" no matter how much you want Him to be.

What I've run into, running with Pentecostal, and CHarismatic crowds over the last 50+ years is:

Tongues in private usage as a "Prayer language" (the way the manifest for me).
Tongues manifested in Church meetings which nobody understood, followed by Interpetation by one or more people. Occasionally, I've been the Interpreter.
Tongues manifested in Church, and understood by someone present, AND Interpreted, and the interpretation agreed with the understanding listeners.
A spoken manifestation in the common tongue, but also understood in one or more different languages (Miracle of hearing).
Tongues spoken to another individual as a private message to them, and not interpreted for the general congregation.
Entire messages delivered by missionaries in tongues for a congregation in their own language.
And, of course Tongues, and interpretation that were as phony as a $3 bill.

And I note that the common "Cessation" passage ALSO SAYS that "Knowledge" will cease, which Cessationists always skip over.

Where did I ever say anything about God being a ‘one trick pony’ or being a ‘cessationist’? I didn’t..you’re attempting to add to my words things which aren’t there..I do believe in gifts and miracles from God as I said before, just not how manmade religious movements that are less than 200 years old falsely teach them. edit per mod

There is no ‘prayer language’ in the Bible. Why is it so hard for you all to understand that the whole purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole? Babbling to yourself incoherently does not do that, it is unbiblical.

“Tongues spoken to another individual as a private message to them, and not interpreted for the general congregation”

Where is that in the Bible? It isn’t..because, again, the entire purpose of spiritual gifts, according to the scriptures, is to add to and or edify the body of Christ as a whole.

Knowledge is ceasing, in many ways. For one example, many churchgoers are unaware that the symbolisms they use and the holidays they celebrate are not Christian at all, but originated from ancient pagan mystery religions. But I never claimed once here that biblical speaking of tongues (actual ethnic languages) have ceased..if God has use for it I believe He would gift a person with the ability to speak a foreign ethnic language, and also gift someone with the ability to interpret it. But since much of the world speaks English now, and also many people across the world are multilingual, and even modern technology can be used to translate, the need for it is not very high.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Where did I ever say anything about God being a ‘one trick pony’ or being a ‘cessationist’? I didn’t..you’re attempting to add to my words things which aren’t there..I do believe in gifts and miracles from God as I said before, just not how manmade religious movements that are less than 200 years old falsely teach them.

Chuckle!! so everybody's WRONG but you. very convincing.

There is no ‘prayer language’ in the Bible.

Unless of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

Why is it so hard for you all to understand that the whole purpose of spiritual gifts is to edify the church as a whole? Babbling to yourself incoherently does not do that, it is unbiblical.

Unless, of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

“Tongues spoken to another individual as a private message to them, and not interpreted for the general congregation”

Where is that in the Bible?

That's what happened at acts 2:4.

Knowledge is ceasing, in many ways.

edit

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

Chuckle!! so everybody's WRONG but you. very convincing.

Unless of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

Unless, of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

That's what happened at acts 2:4.

edit

And there it is yet again, a fine display of a lacking in the Galatians 5:22-23 fruits of the Spirit in the pentecostalist religion.

There you go again twisting things, where did I ever say everyone but me is wrong? I am far, far from the only one who can see through the lies of the pentecostalist religion. So many Christians AND even non-Christians alike have discernment enough to see.

I’ve read 1 Corinthians 14 many times. Every word. There’s many words in that passage that every single pentecostalist totally ignores, such as PURSUE LOVE. In the pentecostalist religion, it’s all about pursuit of self indulgent gifts. They also tend to ignore the words Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:10..IN THE WORLD, which makes it clear the languages he is referring to are earthly, ethnic languages.

You clearly have no idea what happened in Acts 2:4..they were speaking in earthly, ethnic languages. Not pentecostalist witchcraft babble. Try reading in context rather than sifting fragments of scripture and distorting them to accommodate a manmade denominational narrative..the following verses say:

“And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.”
Acts 2:5-6

‘Out of every NATION’
‘the MULTITUDE’
‘every man heard them speak in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE’.

Hardly a ‘private message’ as you claim..and it is also 100% obvious that passage refers to actual ethnic languages. Can’t be anymore obvious.

50 years in the pentecostalist religion you said? Time is a terrible thing to waste, especially 5 decades in such an anti-biblical movement. I hope some day you leave that all behind and come to the truth, and read the Bible without denominational lenses.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

I wrote in context. Something people like you don't won't do because your cessationist views won't hold up to the light of Scripture.

While most who believe like you do believe that there are two different gifts of Tongues, where do you see Paul saying that the one he is speaking of in 1 Corinthians 12-14 is a different gift of Tongues from what was manifested on the day of Pentecost or in any other account of this gift in the Book of Acts?

Where is your proof from the actual scriptures themselves that there are two different gifts of Tongues and each given for a different purpose?

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Chuckle!! so everybody's WRONG but you. very convincing.

Unless of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

Unless, of course you bother to read 1 Cor 14.

That's what happened at acts 2:4.

And you appear to be proof of that.

What you and the majority fail to understand here, is that Paul is addressing the gift of tongues the way that the Corinthians were using or misusing the gift.

So when he says, "he that speaks in tongues, is speaking to God for no one understands what he is saying and that he is only edifying himself by it" he is speaking of the gift in the way that the Corinthians were misusing the gift and he is by no means saying that this is the way the gift was originally intended to be used.

Furthermore, Paul never calls it a prayer language but is only stating that the true original gift would be used either to give a message to the one who speaks that language or to pray with them in their own tongue so that the one speaking it would be able to agree with the prayer.

Paul never calls it a prayer language and neither does he say it was intended to be only a prayer language either and neither is there any scripture to support the idea that there were two separate gifts of Tongues given for two different purposes either.

So while you want to chuckle so much, maybe you need to take this a little more seriously, either that or just stick with playing your bango and forget about attempting to argue on spiritual matters of the scriptures and of which you know little to nothing about.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That verse is referring to outsiders/unbelievers who hear people in the church all speaking in different ethnic languages, misusing the biblical spiritual gift of speaking different languages, likely with no translator present..but certainly Paul is not referring to incoherent babble of modern religious movements. Because in 1 Corinthians 14:10 Paul uses the phrase ‘in the world’ denoting that this passage is referring to actual ethnic languages.

Actually Paul is also referring to the uninformed like you. For starters read 1 Corinthians 14:2 and let's get you educated.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

Actually Paul is also referring to the uninformed like you. For starters read 1 Corinthians 14:2 and let's get you educated.

That is wrong, for Paul is speaking to the Corinthians concerning the way they were using or abusing this gift and he is not saying that this is what the gift was intended for by any means.

Let me ask you this also, for most in your churches believe and teach that there are two different gifts of tongues, so where do you get this from the actual scriptures that you claim to believe in then?

Where did Paul say he was speaking of a different and separate gift of Tongues different from the one manifesed on the day of Pentecost?

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

Actually Paul is also referring to the uninformed like you. For starters read 1 Corinthians 14:2 and let's get you educated.

‘Let’s get you educated? LOL..Who’s let’s? And ‘educated’? More like indoctrinated into pentecostalist lies. Read 1 John 2:27..Christians don’t need anyone to teach them anyways, the Holy Spirit leads them to all truth, also John 16:13.

Another thing, since you are such a big fan of 1 Corinthians, what about verse 14:34? It isn’t your place to ‘educate’ me spiritually anyways, no offense intended at all, it’s just what that verse is referring to. Women aren’t to try to usurp spiritual authority over men.

No, Paul was referring to those such as the unbelieving Jews referenced in Acts 2:5-6 which I posted. You added that word ‘uninformed’ into the text yourself, which is standard for the pentecostalist religion, always twisting verses out of context. Trust me, I am very well informed on the pentecostalist religion..it is a doctrine of devils and my hope is you will leave it behind. It was a corrupt tree from the start therefore cannot bear good fruit.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

‘Let’s get you educated? LOL..Who’s let’s? And ‘educated’? More like indoctrinated into pentecostalist lies. Read 1 John 2:27..Christians don’t need anyone to teach them anyways, the Holy Spirit leads them to all truth, also John 16:13.

Another thing, since you are such a big fan of 1 Corinthians, what about verse 14:34? It isn’t your place to ‘educate’ me spiritually anyways, no offense intended at all, it’s just what that verse is referring to. Women aren’t to try to usurp spiritual authority over men.

No, Paul was referring to those such as the unbelieving Jews referenced in Acts 2:5-6 which I posted. You added that word ‘uninformed’ into the text yourself, which is standard for the pentecostalist religion, always twisting verses out of context. Trust me, I am very well informed on the pentecostalist religion..it is a doctrine of devils and my hope is you will leave it behind. It was a corrupt tree from the start therefore cannot bear good fruit.

Hey, I am not only informed about the Pentecostal Charismatic churches but I used to be one myself and even spoke in the un Biblical Tongues that they teach as well.

In fact my church in Sarasota Florida was associated with the "Christian Retreat" of Bradenton Florida and I belonged to this church for better than 25 years also, so I know well what they believe and where they get their ideas from the scriptures also.

 

[shroom]

Hey, I am not only informed about the Pentecostal Charismatic churches but I used to be one myself and even spoke in the un Biblical Tongues that they teach as well.

In fact my church in Sarasota Florida was associated with the "Christian Retreat" of Bradenton Florida and I belonged to this church for better than 25 years also, so I know well what they believe and where they get their ideas from the scriptures also.

So you do acknowledge that they get their ideas from scripture... That's a start..

 

[shroom]

Christians don’t need anyone to teach them anyways,

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Acts 8:
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Acts 8:
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

If you’re going to quote me don’t cut it off like that without the verses I listed that say it is the Spirit which is the guide.

Speaking of cutting things off, you left this part out:

“And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.”
Acts 8:34-35

So the one in that passage did not know the Lord Jesus Christ yet, and was unfamiliar with the prophesy of Isaiah, of course in such a situation one would require a teacher, Ephesians 4:11. But you cut off only a fragment of what I wrote, about how Christians, I.e. John 3:3 reborn believers don’t require a teacher..those who John was referring to in 1 John 2:27.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Let me ask you this also, for most in your churches believe and teach that there are two different gifts of tongues, so where do you get this from the actual scriptures that you claim to believe in then?

First we have the manifestation of tongues for all who believe in Jesus individually, and note it is without interpretation:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (TO GOD AS IN PRAYER); 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

The Hebrew idiom about serpents and poison is meaning God's divine protection. It is not literal as some in a few back woods Pentecostal churches practice.

Now for the profit of all:

1 Corinthians 12:8-10. There is a different tongues manifestation that sounds the same, BUT it MUST be interpreted and the direction from the Holy Spirit is FROM God. We find it used like the gift of prophecy. This is the real reason "prophecy" is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul is not comparing speaking in tongues TO God to the gift of prophecy from 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. He is comparing these two different manifestations of tongues! The "prophetic tongues" is not given to all who believe like the prayer language is. Jesus does not give this specialized office to everyone. That is why 1 Corinthians 12:30 says it is not. And because these are like an office, those with the gift of interpretation must be present for those with the gift of prophetic tongues to speak. If they are not present, then those with only the gift of prophetic tongues must keep silent. Prophecy is not the only thing those with this office can do with this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 shows other messages from God it could be.

 

[CharismaticLady]

‘Let’s get you educated? LOL..Who’s let’s? And ‘educated’? More like indoctrinated into pentecostalist lies. Read 1 John 2:27..Christians don’t need anyone to teach them anyways, the Holy Spirit leads them to all truth, also John 16:13.

Another thing, since you are such a big fan of 1 Corinthians, what about verse 14:34? It isn’t your place to ‘educate’ me spiritually anyways, no offense intended at all, it’s just what that verse is referring to. Women aren’t to try to usurp spiritual authority over men.

No, Paul was referring to those such as the unbelieving Jews referenced in Acts 2:5-6 which I posted. You added that word ‘uninformed’ into the text yourself, which is standard for the pentecostalist religion, always twisting verses out of context. Trust me, I am very well informed on the pentecostalist religion..it is a doctrine of devils and my hope is you will leave it behind. It was a corrupt tree from the start therefore cannot bear good fruit.

You can stay uneducated if you like. Those two verses (34-35) were added later. Look at the context before and after. Look how it flows without those verses. You really are uninformed aren't you.

 

[shroom]

If you’re going to quote me don’t cut it off like that without the verses I listed that say it is the Spirit which is the guide.

Speaking of cutting things off, you left this part out:

“And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.”
Acts 8:34-35

Philip TAUGHT him.

So the one in that passage did not know the Lord Jesus Christ yet, and was unfamiliar with the prophesy of Isaiah, of course in such a situation one would require a teacher, Ephesians 4:11. But you cut off only a fragment of what I wrote, about how Christians, I.e. John 3:3 reborn believers don’t require a teacher..those who John was referring to in 1 John 2:27.

If you believe that speaking in tongues is not legit, you need a teacher.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

First we have the manifestation of tongues for all who believe in Jesus individually, and note it is without interpretation:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (TO GOD AS IN PRAYER); 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” The Hebrew idiom about serpents and poison is meaning God's divine protection. It is not literal as some in a few back woods Pentecostal churches practice.

Where in the above passage is it specified as a prayer language and where does it say that this gift is for sefl edification and that no interpretation is needed when using the gift, I fail to see that in this passage, so where is it?

Where does it say that it wasn't purposed for the same reason as it was on the day of Pentecost where each Jewish unbeliever from the other nations heard them speak in the language of the nation that he lived in?

You are making things up from the verses that you want to believe about them.

By the way, are you aware of the fact that while the KJV and a few other translations include this verse in their translations, that they majority don't and the reason why, is because it is not included in the most reliable Greek manuscripts?

Now for the profit of all:

1 Corinthians 12:8-10. There is a different tongues manifestation that sounds the same, BUT it MUST be interpreted and the direction from the Holy Spirit is FROM God. We find it used like the gift of prophecy. This is the real reason "prophecy" is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul is not comparing speaking in tongues TO God to the gift of prophecy from 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. He is comparing these two different manifestations of tongues! The "prophetic tongues" is not given to all who believe like the prayer language is. Jesus does not give this specialized office to everyone. That is why 1 Corinthians 12:30 says it is not. And because these are like an office, those with the gift of interpretation must be present for those with the gift of prophetic tongues to speak. If they are not present, then those with only the gift of prophetic tongues must keep silent. Prophecy is not the only thing those with this office can do with this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 shows other messages from God it could be.

You are as usual, reading what you want to believe into these chapters and therefore you need to read my signature below and take it to the heart also.

 

[Yahweh will increase]

First we have the manifestation of tongues for all who believe in Jesus individually, and note it is without interpretation:

Mark 16:16-18
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues (TO GOD AS IN PRAYER); 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

The Hebrew idiom about serpents and poison is meaning God's divine protection. It is not literal as some in a few back woods Pentecostal churches practice.

Now for the profit of all:

1 Corinthians 12:8-10. There is a different tongues manifestation that sounds the same, BUT it MUST be interpreted and the direction from the Holy Spirit is FROM God. We find it used like the gift of prophecy. This is the real reason "prophecy" is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 14. Paul is not comparing speaking in tongues TO God to the gift of prophecy from 1 Corinthians 12:8-10. He is comparing these two different manifestations of tongues! The "prophetic tongues" is not given to all who believe like the prayer language is. Jesus does not give this specialized office to everyone. That is why 1 Corinthians 12:30 says it is not. And because these are like an office, those with the gift of interpretation must be present for those with the gift of prophetic tongues to speak. If they are not present, then those with only the gift of prophetic tongues must keep silent. Prophecy is not the only thing those with this office can do with this gift. 1 Corinthians 14:6 shows other messages from God it could be.

By the way, where in those verses do you get this idea that all believers will speak in tongues?

That isn't what it actually says at all but only that these are signs that follow them who believe as a whole body of believers.

What about where Paul says, do all speak in Tongues, do all interpret, do all prophecy, etc, etc?