Are you able to tell us what difference does this question make? And are you intellectually qualified to refute or negate the suppositions in the first place?
.......Alan
we barely know what we are talking about
- Thread starter Yahchristian
- Start date
.......Alan
OldShepherd
Well-known member
I have been a Christian since LBJ was president and have been studying the Bible which included both Biblical languages and at times included the trinity and have an advanced degree in Theology. Do you have a specific question about or problem with the Trinity?
e v e 21
Well-known member
if the jargon/terms and concepts of Greek philosophy could be avoided by both sides of various debates, perhaps the actual things God wants to say to us would be easier to find and agree on. I'm a retired philosophy professor saying this... and it is my opinion based on my years in the profession.
Yahchristian
Well-known member
Yahchristian
Well-known member
Yes. This is Doctrine of the Trinity 101.
Are you saying the answer to these questions DO NOT make a difference?
- How many relations are in God?
- How many persons are in God?
- Etc.
I have the Catholic Catechism, so I can tell you if the 5,600 Catholic bishops refute you.
If your supposition was remotely true, there would not be 100's of various denominations teaching different things with the very same Holy Scriptures about the very same God. The scriptures are clearly not the problem. Greek philosophy is not the problem, therefore it can only be the individuals intelligibility to rightly comprehend that will forever be the problem.
You are a retired philosophy teacher ,and yet object to the Trinity like any anti trinitarian with no knowledge of philosophy . According to Aquinas some philosophers gave occasion to paganism, but then again many common modern Christians give occasion to paganism in an effect not to be polytheistic. You like to assert feminine spirit to the Word , while the ancients signify passive spiratio to the Holy Spirit.
........Alan
You demonstrate time after time that you are unqualified to speak of God in three persons ,on account of your starting premise is " three persons means three individual beings or three gods". Leaving you completely devoid of adequately expressing , refuting or teaching the doctrine of the Trinity 101.
Oh 5600 bishops are not church fathers or church doctors ,so no you cannot refute me or tell me if 5600 bishops refute me try as you might. But first Presentist you need to understand what is meant to be understood before you can do anything. What is in Catechism is to refute charges of polytheism, whereas you personally import polytheism, then turn around a question others on the polytheism you import into doctrine and terminology.
If you want to be helpful demonstrate that you comprehend what the ancient and medieval theologians understood of the very words in the Catechism. Otherwise you just come across as a troll full of straw and fallacious arguments.
.......Alan
OldShepherd
Well-known member
Don't know. Don't care. Just another meaningless argumentative question the only purpose of which is to foment dissension. Does any of this help those in need have a better relationship with God. If not ghost tough fit.
OldShepherd
Well-known member
Exactly.
There is something wrong with this, as a distinction with a difference is clearly noted in Jn 1:1 as between ὁ Λόγος and ὁ Θεὸς.
It seems to me your project is the removal of hierarchy within deity. But I think you have no authority for it, as Paul says in 1 Cor 11:3
κεφαλὴ δὲ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ὁ Θεός (the head of Christ is God).
and in Luke 22:69
ἀπὸ τοῦ νῦν δὲ ἔσται ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου καθήμενος ἐκ δεξιῶν τῆς δυνάμεως τοῦ Θεοῦ (Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.)
This is what the bible teaches of the so-termed Trinity.
ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν
Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος
τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ
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The Word is distinct from God but not different than God. All things were bought into being by the Word and without the Word does anything have being . The Word was made to the creature and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father to become obedient unto death .The Father commands and the Son obeys. The Father gives and the Son receives. I do not know what you mean by "It seems to me your project is the removal of hierarchy within deity". In the order of nature The Father begets and the Son is begotten. God and The Word as one proceeds therefrom another but not however as if other from the Divine Nature. For the perfection of the Word contains both the Principle and the Term of the Principle. My project should be everyone's project , removing any notions of polytheism in the Divine. Less ye be repugnant to the SHEMA.
3. Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
5. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
8. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
I do not know if you are a Trinitarian or Oneness, but your argument kind of sounds like a semi Arian in that the word was a god jr.
....... Alan
JNelson
Well-known member
I agree and Jesus’ God and Father, YHWH, reveals that HE alone is God, no one else.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
There is a distinction of PERSONS in John 1:1.
Yahchristian
Well-known member
For example...
TRINITARIANS, just to clarify your Trinitarian view...
How many RELATIONS are in God?
A) Three, and it would be WRONG to say four.
B) Three, but it would NOT matter if you said four.
C) Four, and it would be WRONG to say three.
D) Four, but it would NOT matter if you said three.
E) Don’t know. Don’t care.
How many PERSONS are in God?
A) Three, and it would be WRONG to say four.
B) Three, but it would NOT matter if you said four.
C) Four, and it would be WRONG to say three.
D) Four, but it would NOT matter if you said three.
E) Don’t know. Don’t care.
For example, what is simple and One can only be expressed by a multitude of objects. For all other questions, see any other previous reply for any answer you are looking for.
....... Alan