What is the salvific effect of the Cross?

[balshan]

And we have provided verses that support our beliefs.

NO you haven't. You don't even clearly state your beliefs. What else is needed to be saved.

 

[balshan]

If scripture alone is your final/sole authority then the ball is in your court. Scripture doesn't say that we are saved by faith alone. Those are the words of men and according to the nCCs, the words of men are not the final/sole authority.

Scripture is clear we are not saved by works, we are not justified by works, the OT main players eg Abram were saved by faith and not works so what else saves???????????? I am prepared to be convinced but you give us nothing at all. Nothing. Not saved by works is clearly stated in scripture. Not saved by works, not saved by works of law. What saves us??????????????????????

 

[balshan]

And we have provided verses that support our beliefs.

You don't even clearly state your beliefs, so therefore no verses at all to support them. I have asked but you keep running away and do not stand up and clearly state:

a. What saves us?????
b. Give the scriptural supports for said beliefs????
c. Whose righteousness??????

WAITING, WAITING, WAITING

 

[balshan]

If scripture alone is your final/sole authority then the ball is in your court. Scripture doesn't say that we are saved by faith alone. Those are the words of men and according to the nCCs, the words of men are not the final/sole authority.

Scripture clearly states we are saved by grace through faith and not by works, it also says we cannot earn righteousness. No need for the word alone at all, that is your obsession. So works cannot save us, what saves US??????????????????????????????????????????????

I don't need to use the word alone at all. You keep adding the word alone. So I am in total agreement with scripture grace through faith. You give us nothing but ramblings and word salad. No clear statement of beliefs, no scriptural support for those beliefs.

You are able to fill pages of the thread with nothing of substance.

 

[dingoling.]

Really but there are plenty that say we are saved by faith and not by works. So please show us what else is needed. If you want to spread the good news then you should be telling all and sundry how to be saved but you don't. You just inanely repeat it does not say by faith alone ad nauseum. This is meaningless as you are the only one using those words and you never prove your claim at all. Never tell us what else is needed to be saved???????????????????? Is it because you don't know.

Remember without faith you can never God. People have never been saved by works, so what else?????????????????????

Still looking for the words of God.

 

[balshan]

Still looking for the words of God.

Oh so you don't know where to find the words of God, no surprise really.

You aren't able to answer questions. Jesus often said your faith has saved you, he never said your works have saved you.

Luke 7:20

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Matt 9:22

Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well.

Luke 18:42

And Jesus said to him, “Recover your sight; your faith has made you well.”

Luke 17:19

And he said to him, “Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well.”

Oh look Jesus words agree with Eph 2:8+ and all the other verses I have already posted for you. That is because He is the word made flesh. He cannot disagree with Himself.​

 

[A new day]

I have provided verses that support my belief, you have given us nothing except your words and no proof to back it up.

The only thing dingoling can provide is juvenile gibberish, because the rcc itself is pretense, and plays games at the laity's expense.

 

[dingoling.]

Oh so you don't know where to find the words of God, no surprise really.

No, we can't find the word of God that says we are saved by faith alone and not by works.

 

[balshan]

No, we can't find the word of God that says we are saved by faith alone and not by works.

Please post to where I have ever said faith alone, that is you and you alone. Try something else. Tell us what else saves. You give us nothing and cannot even clearly articulate your beliefs. Faith and what?????????????? It cannot be works or works of law. So what else?????????????????

Without faith you cannot please God. Jesus says it is faith that saves.

Luke 7:20

Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Matt 9:22

Jesus turned, and seeing her he said, “Take heart, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And instantly the woman was made well.

Luke 18:42

And Jesus said to him, “Recover your sight; your faith has made you well.”

Luke 17:19

And he said to him, “Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well

 

[balshan]

No, we can't find the word of God that says we are saved by faith alone and not by works.

You cannot find any word of God that supports your works based salvation because Jesus has said it is faith that saved, we are also told grace through faith and NOT WORKS and NOT WORKS OF LAW.

 

[ramcam2]

How does the Roman Catholic Church connect this grace that they say they have, to mankind?

here from the catholic encyclopedia... Grace (gratia, [Gr.] charis), in general, is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation, whether the latter be furthered and attained through salutary acts or a state of holiness.

 

[balshan]

here from the catholic encyclopedia... Grace (gratia, [Gr.] charis), in general, is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation, whether the latter be furthered and attained through salutary acts or a state of holiness.

So that must include atheist then?????????????????????????

 

[ramcam2]

If it is impossible to have an invalid consecration, your church would not have to teach about it.

You seriously did not know that your wafers have to be validly consecrated in order to supposedly become Jesus?

I have not many Catholics that did not know that!

did i mention valid consecration or invalid consecration?
like in the other sacraments, there are requirements to be met for its validity and you are not the one to decide on it.

 

[balshan]

Ding I am repeating my post 583

You don't even clearly state your beliefs, so therefore no verses at all to support them. I have asked but you keep running away and do not stand up and clearly state:

a. What saves us?????
b. Give the scriptural supports for said beliefs????
c. Whose righteousness??????

WAITING, WAITING, WAITING

and I am still WAITING, WAITING, WAITING for a clear simple answer.

 

[ramcam2]

A full pardon from a holy God seems wrong and mankind wants to clean up its act first. But the reality is, that there are no markers to tell when you have earned enough grace. No price tags. No ledgers that tell you ... when you have achieved that goal through earnings. Quite humbling isn't it? So salvation is given to us simply because God wanted to give it to us. Even though we do not deserve it. John 3:16 begins with "For God so loved the world".

For God sent Christ Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to end all God’s anger against us. He used Christ’s blood and our faith as the means of saving us from his wrath. In this way he was being entirely fair, even though he did not punish those who sinned in former times. For he was looking forward to the time when Christ would come and take away those sins. This is the "good news", There is peace with God, through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross"

John 3:15
so that anyone who believes in me will have eternal life. For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:29
Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

Where is the "earning our way" or" earning enough grace" In the above verses? Consider that when peter preached to cornelius, that he doesn't tell cornelius to earn his way, but begins with

Acts 10:36
You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all.

And finishes with,

Acts 10:43
All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

in other words it is 'faith alone"?
how do you understand ephesians2: 10 No, we are his design; God has created us in Christ Jesus, pledged to such good actions as he has prepared beforehand, to be the employment of our lives.
After being saved initially by the grace of God, can we still enter heaven if we fail to do this good actions/works?

 

[A new day]

here from the catholic encyclopedia... Grace (gratia, [Gr.] charis), in general, is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation, whether the latter be furthered and attained through salutary acts or a state of holiness.

The rc encyclopedia, calls it a "gift". It is no longer a gift, if you have to work for it or earn it. Gifts are given by a giver, and the giver never demands payment for the gift. A gift is UNearned.

 

[A new day]

in other words it is 'faith alone"?
how do you understand ephesians2: 10 No, we are his design; God has created us in Christ Jesus, pledged to such good actions as he has prepared beforehand, to be the employment of our lives.
After being saved initially by the grace of God, can we still enter heaven if we fail to do this good actions/works?

God gave you a gift, it is yours. All you need to do is accept it. Just as if I was standing in front of you, handing you a gift.

 

[A new day]

Because of his kindness, we have been saved through trusting Christ. And even trusting is not of ourselves, it too is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good we have done, so none of us can take any credit for it.

 

[A new day]

If you truly believe and accept God's free gift, you'll never be the same again, but will have a new life. Your outlook on life and sin will change. Your attitude towards others will change. You will begin to care, what God thinks first about things, followed by caring about your fellow man in a way you have never known.

 

[A new day]

After being saved initially by the grace of God, can we still enter heaven if we fail to do this good actions/works?

We can't save ourselves from sin, if we could then Jesus didn't need to shed His blood on the cross. But He did, because we can't. He paid the penalty for us as a gift to us.

The day I heard the gospel, and fully believed and accepted that free gift from God, is a day I have never forgotten. All the burden of sin and guilt, washed away. And a joy just flooded over me. All is well between me and God. There is peace with God. And I didn't work for it in any way. I am at peace. We non-rc's want this peace for you too. Please believe us. It isn't initial either... we have experienced a permanent peace and joy.

I never have to wonder if I still have a tomorrow, or if I'm still right with God when I die. I don't wonder. For I know in my heart, that all is well between me and God. God is so wonderful and awesome! Wow, what a change there has been in my life after that day! I have a joy and peace in my heart that has no boundaries.

It is so wonderful to be declared by God, "not guilty". You have nothing to lose by fully trusting God to save you. And everything to gain by it. God is powerful enough to do it for you.