Why did Jesus speak in parables?

[shnarkle]

It is insulting?

Yes, suggesting that those you're talking to look up the definitions of words is insulting.

Funny

It's not funny at all. Edit per mod

because I looked it up before my initial response to you.

So what??? Do you want a pat on the back simply because you have enough sense to look up a word you don't remember the definition to?

Your name calling is what's insulting. Not to me per se, but to yourself.

What's insulting is completely ignoring the point made in favor of pointless condescension.

Get your last word in, I'm not into your bickering twaddle.

You're considerably more interested in twaddle than addressing the facts presented for your edification. Again, you've conceded the point in favor of deflecting to baseless and pointless Ad Hominem.

 

[Christian]

Jesus spoke in Parables to keep the Gospel veiled from some hearers...

I will use this Passage in my debate on the Dialectic Debate Thread...

Well its an argument you cannot win according to Jesus below. The disciples didn't understand the gospel. But I'm looking forward to this discussion over there brother !

Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.

33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”

Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.

Luke 18:31-34
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.”
34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.


Luke 24:25-26
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?”

 

[preacher4truth]

It looks like the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition.

The Spirit breatheth where he will; and thou hearest his voice, but thou knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Leave it to the Catholics. I'm not into this carnal name calling and callow ridiculing. Waste of time.

 

[eternomade]

AHA lol- someone is better at it hence the white flag. pwn3d

Is this how you practice Dialectic Debate?

 

[Christian]

Is this how you practice Dialectic Debate?

I have answered all your arguments/questions with scripture. Hence the silence.

see here as your OP collapsed

Why did Jesus speak in parables?

It is insulting? Yes, suggesting that those you're talking to look up the definitions of words is insulting. Funny It's not funny at all. Edit per mod because I looked it up before my initial response to you. So what??? Do you want a pat on the back simply because you have enough sense to...

forums.carm.org

next

 

[eternomade]

Anyone able to answer the OP? Thanks @shnarkle for answering.

I do believe that anyone is capable of understanding these truths in scripture(like demons do) but are not capable of receiving them, unless God opens their mind to these spiritual truths. People can understand math, science, worldly things, but spiritual things are only discerned by those God has revealed Himself to.

 

[shnarkle]

Leave it to the Catholics. I'm not into this carnal name calling and callow ridiculing. Waste of time.

You're not into addressing the fact that the Greek manuscripts refute your claims either. The fact is that regardless of which translation is used, they ALL refute your claims that one's understanding is a factor. John 3:8 refutes you.

 

[shnarkle]

Anyone able to answer the OP? Thanks @shnarkle for answering.

I do believe that anyone is capable of understanding these truths in scripture(like demons do) but are not capable of receiving them, unless God opens their mind to these spiritual truths.

I agree that God opens the mind, but only insofar as it relates to one's conscious or perhaps even their unconscious awareness. God's revelations are immediate, but what one thinks about these revelations must necessarily be secondary.

People can understand math, science, worldly things, but spiritual things are only discerned by those God has revealed Himself to.

Here again, I can't help but note that the gospel begins with "deny yourself", and I also can't help but presume that God would have any reason to contradict this fundamental precept of the gospel by doing the exact opposite and revealing what must be denied.

However, if Christ's injunction is strictly referring to possession rather than the identity itself, then I can see the validity of Christ revealed as the only true self and the fact that all of creation was created for him seems to back this up.

 

[preacher4truth]

Anyone able to answer the OP? Thanks...

I do believe that anyone is capable of understanding these truths in scripture(like demons do) but are not capable of receiving them, unless God opens their mind to these spiritual truths. People can understand math, science, worldly things, but spiritual things are only discerned by those God has revealed Himself to.

I've answered this numerous times on here. The lost natural man can "understand" them, some of them in a mental assent fashion of course, but not in the way 1 Corinthians 2 states. But we have to define understand. I'll do that after this.

The Spirit of God illuminates our understanding. The natural man is without the Spirit.

The first thing is the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit. The other factor is that they think these things are foolish. But to the part of them not understanding in 1 Corinthians 2:14, it means to be intimately acquainted with, it carries a different depth in its meaning. They do not understand on that level because they are not His.

This is why I have shown @Christian to be incorrect in calling the disciples carnal natural men. He is completely off track.

I do not believe we are saved and have zero understanding as @shnarkle suggests. I did look up the word understand to get a refresh of its meaning -- I don't know it all, and will continue to learn. I don't think it too beneath me to do so, in fact I consider doing so prudent.

 

[shnarkle]

I do not believe we are saved and have zero understanding as @shnarkle suggests.

I'm not suggesting that one need be completely ignorant or without understanding. I'm simply pointing out that one's understanding is a secondary concern to the immediate and ontological reality. There can be no mediators between God and man other than Christ who never claimed to be anything other than "the way, the truth and the life". He never said anything about the necessity to understand which is effectively no different than placing one's faith in the law. There is life and then there's the meaning of life. The former obliterates death while the latter can never give or add life.

One may know the truth, but it is not knowledge of the truth that sets one free. It is the truth itself which sets one free. One does not come to the truth through knowledge of the truth. Knowledge of the truth is necessarily secondary. One's knowledge of the truth is derived from the truth itself, not the other way around. Knowledge cannot validate the truth, but only acquiesce or bear witness to the truth. Again, this is the same exact principle underlying Christ and Paul's references to the law.

He plainly points out those who are without understanding, but when he says "Follow me.", the tax collector need only have the ears to understand the command itself. His understanding of life is secondary to the fact of life itself. The personification of eternal life is calling him, one needn't comprehend much of anything beyond the fact that it is a "no-brainer" to walk away from one's mortal life to take that first step into eternity.

In fact, I would point out that to consider the ramifications necessarily precludes one from entering. Those who turn back from the plow are not worthy of the kingdom.

 

[ReverendRV]

Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Amen...

It deserves at least one BUMP...

 

[eternomade]

Amen...

Yes it's a blessing to be given eyes and ears. I am happy about it for sure.

John 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

 

[Rockson]

Amen...

It deserves at least one BUMP...

You're forcing a meaning into the text Rev that just isn't there.

It was not given them to know the mysteries of the kingdom for they choose not to be hungry and go after the truth. They could have though.

 

[Theo1689]

You're forcing a meaning into the text Rev that just isn't there.

It was not given them to know the mysteries of the kingdom for they choose not to be hungry and go after the truth. They could have though.

You falsely claim they "choose not to be hungry" and "choose not to go after the truth" (assertions NEVER found in Scripture), and you accuse the good Rev of "forcing a meaning into the text"?

Seriously?!

 

[David1701]

Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

Amen. The sovereignty of God in salvation is clear here.