Why Jews will never accept Jesus

[Open Heart]

No, hon, you are wrong.
The Sioux did hideous rituals to their "great spirit", such as the Sun Dance where they abused and tore their bodies to ribbons as they hung on poles by the flesh of their own chests.
That cut their bodies when they mourned their dead.
God called said to not learn or imitate the ways of the heathen. Lev. 19:28

Maybe you need to buy a better from which to learn about your pet religions .

And Christians have done shameful, dispicable things in the name of Jesus. Do you really want to go there?

Ashamed of what??

Of calling me a Hindu when I am not, and then allowing time to pass without an apology. Not very Christlike. So? Ready to apologize? Or are you going to let your pride control your heart and not repent of your wrong?

 

[Open Heart]

what is the value to me of knowing who he is?

It's just another one of a gazillion indicators that show how uneducated your are in the matter of religion -- not just other religions, but your own as well. CS Lewis is perhaps the best known 20th century apologist for Christianity.

 

[Open Heart]

very hard since they are both connected

They are about as connected as Mormonism is to the early Church.

that would be backward-thinking...one has to study something first to come up with a philosophy

Philosophical Taoism studies nature, not religious Taoism.

 

[Open Heart]

more like a rolling stone, you said you were once a Christian, were you a Taoist at any point?

I went directly from Christianity/Catholicism to Judaism.

so you are not comfortable with your training?

Right. There were things in Orthodoxy I found problematic. I felt oppressed as a woman -- not being able to sing except in my own immediate family, having to wear clothing that made me overheat (I'm very sensitive to heat -- I even wear short sleeves in winter), and I think it is offensive asking married women to cover their hair. There are rules I think are basically just OCD, like having to put your right shoe on first. As an Orthodox, I was willing to abide by all these rules in order to be a part of the community--it's not all about what *I* think. However, my health necessitated me moving to the country to live with family, out where there was no orthodox shul, so there was no longer a an orthodox community for me to be a part of. In my town, the only synagogue that is reachable is Reform, so Jews of all stripes who are religious go there. I have basically found that what I am religiously comfortable with for the most part is a Conservative halakhah.

 

[Open Heart]

\
That begs the question if what you consider yourself to be is what you really are.

Unless you are mentally disturbed and not perceiving reality correctly, you are of COURSE what you consider yourself to be, what you choose to be.

 

[Open Heart]

@Newbirth

Thought you might be interested in this. Its from a Jewish document: the 1999 Pittsburgh Platform.
"We regard with reverence all of God's creation and recognize our human responsibility for its preservation and protection."

 

[Newbirth]

Unless you are mentally disturbed and not perceiving reality correctly, you are of COURSE what you consider yourself to be, what you choose to be.

that explains your position...You consider yourself to be a Jew but agree with other nations and their God....EX 34:
11 Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.
12 Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
13 But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

 

[Newbirth]

@Newbirth

Thought you might be interested in this. Its from a Jewish document: the 1999 Pittsburgh Platform.
"We regard with reverence all of God's creation and recognize our human responsibility for its preservation and protection."

I don't see the connection with you serving Tao

 

[Newbirth]

I went directly from Christianity/Catholicism to Judaism.

what of Taoism and Lakota do you mix in their beliefs with Christianity/Catholicism to Judaism?

Right. There were things in Orthodoxy I found problematic. I felt oppressed as a woman -- not being able to sing except in my own immediate family, having to wear clothing that made me overheat (I'm very sensitive to heat -- I even wear short sleeves in winter), and I think it is offensive asking married women to cover their hair. There are rules I think are basically just OCD, like having to put your right shoe on first. As an Orthodox, I was willing to abide by all these rules in order to be a part of the community--it's not all about what *I* think.

That is funny did you see all those rules in the laws that God gave Moses? Yet you were willing to follow them.

However, my health necessitated me moving to the country to live with family, out where there was no orthodox shul, so there was no longer a an orthodox community for me to be a part of.

That is foolishness, you are saying that you cannot serve the God of the orthodox apart from the community...

In my town, the only synagogue that is reachable is Reform, so Jews of all stripes who are religious go there. I have basically found that what I am religiously comfortable with for the most part is a Conservative halakhah.

That is what I said a rolling stone settles where it is comfortable...soon as the shaking starts it rolls to another comfortable position..you described yourself perfectly...

 

[Newbirth]

It's just another one of a gazillion indicators that show how uneducated your are in the matter of religion -- not just other religions, but your own as well. CS Lewis is perhaps the best known 20th century apologist for Christianity.

what makes you say that I am a "Christian"? I follow the teaching of My Master Jesus, the son of the Most High God. Why should I know a Christian apologist who has no bearing on my relationship with my Lord?

 

[Newbirth]

They are about as connected as Mormonism is to the early Church.

there is Jesus in the early church and Jesus in Mormonism...

Philosophical Taoism studies nature, not religious Taoism.

What is your point here? Is there not a God in Philosophical Taoism and the same God in religious Taoism?

 

[Newbirth]

It made zero point. It was quite ridiculous.

that is because you have no understanding...

You're the one that made the silly dog analogy which doesn't apply.

it does apply adoption does not change bloodline...

Her adoption is proven by her having a kinsman redeemer. It's a basic fact.

So you agree that Ruth was a stranger...Ruth 2:
10 Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger?

Yep, males aren't allowed.

therefore females are

Of course it helps my argument. Context newbirth, context. Don't you argue that Jesus is not God even though the same Greek term for LORD is used for him? I know you're smarter than this and are just playing the wilfully ignorant.

No it does not help your argument...You would agree that there are limitations in translations. Jesus never claimed to be God...You cannot show me one place where Jesus said "I am God...Actually, Jesus said he was ascending to his God...So here is the context...
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Based on this no one can argue Jesus claims to be God...

Know, I've proven my case.

no , you haven't. You just make claims without support. Just like you did with your translation and pronunciation claim.

But they are. That's why they are part of the congregation of Israel, Exodus 12:19. Why would they included in the congregation of Israel if they weren't included, adopted?

they may be a part of the congregation but they are not Israelites...

I never said you couldn't. I've shown you how, Isaiah 56:1-8. Go get yourself adopted, go before a Bet Din.

adoption does not and cannot make me an Israelite...

I never said that. You'd need to convert, become adopted. Your wife would have to be converted or Jewish as well. You know this already. Native Israelites are Jewish already.

That does not and cannot make me an Israelite... Have you no understanding? I didn't ask about being Jewish...

Of course non-Jews born in Israel are not Jewish.

the question is are they Israelites...you are deflecting...You have to tell me if babies born in Israel by Palestinian parents are Israelites or not and if not why not...

But you've never answered this. Why not?

following your rabbit trails deflects from the discussion....You have to tell me if babies born in Israel by Palestinian parents are Israelites or not and if not why not...

 

[Newbirth]

Yep, and you accept that, so that is not a point of contention. Jesus has no valid lineage in Matthew or Luke. They contradict each other, and Jesus doesn't descend from Joseph, so why be dishonest about it?

I accept it by faith I also accept Jesus lineage so that should not be a point of contention either...

Your own NT.

show the chapter and verse

That is false. Even the Tanakh shows women having seed as in Genesis 24:60.

that would be her eggs she is born with them she does not make them

If you're talking biology, a man produces male offspring with an X and Y, and females with an X and x.

yes and the x and y chromosome he produces in his body.

Show Jesus at a minimum is infected with Mary's X which she got from her father, which ultimately she got from Adam.

x does not produce seed to make males only Y

See above.

nothing has changed...only Y makes males women do not pass on Y

I've never admitted a problem.

well, it says Ruth was a stranger...you are saying differently

It's in the Tanakh which you acknowledge as authoritative.

I also acknowledge the NT as authoritative.

See above.

still no evidence, I accept it by faith...

Then you defeat yourself because Jesus doesn't descend from Joseph, which you have admitted. So, Jesus has no legitimate lineage to speak of.

He does from his mother...you are not very bright, are you?

If God wanted a new creation, he would not have involved Mary, a women who herself had sin, and carried this genetic trait from Adam. You're dead in the water.

You are dull of hearing...Eve was created without sin Just as Adam she was taken from Adam before Adam sinned...they both sinned separately...the woman was deceived into sinning the man disobeyed a direct order. These things you should know.

 

[Jewjitzu]

that is because you have no understanding...

Only because you don't understand.

it does apply adoption does not change bloodline...

Never said otherwise. So Jesus can't be adopted either. Checkmate.

So you agree that Ruth was a stranger...Ruth 2:
10 Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger?

Yes. And she was adopted and has a kinsman redeemer. She accepted the God of Israel.

therefore females are

Are what? Infected? Yes, and so is Jesus.

Check the grammar on Moabites. Its masculine in form and the reason Ruth could join.

No it does not help your argument...You would agree that there are limitations in translations. Jesus never claimed to be God...You cannot show me one place where Jesus said "I am God...Actually, Jesus said he was ascending to his God...So here is the context...
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I never said Jesus is God. Focus.

Based on this no one can argue Jesus claims to be God...

I can. You do too.

no , you haven't. You just make claims without support. Just like you did with your translation and pronunciation claim.

Supported all of the time. Can you say Yehoshua?

they may be a part of the congregation but they are not Israelites...

It says they are. Congregation of Israelites includes natives and converts.

adoption does not and cannot make me an Israelite...

Sure it does. Just like people become Americans.

That does not and cannot make me an Israelite... Have you no understanding? I didn't ask about being Jewish...

Well, as this rate you never will.

the question is are they Israelites...you are deflecting...You have to tell me if babies born in Israel by Palestinian parents are Israelites or not and if not why not...

I don't see Palestinians converting, do you?

following your rabbit trails deflects from the discussion....You have to tell me if babies born in Israel by Palestinian parents are Israelites or not and if not why not...

Nope, if they never converted.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I accept it by faith I also accept Jesus lineage so that should not be a point of contention either...

But he doesn't have a physical father, and you've already agreed Israelite lineage is per the Father.

show the chapter and verse

Sure. Compare the genealogies of Matthew, Luke, and 1 Chronicles 1-3.

Keep in mind you've said adoption doesn't work for physical lineage.

that would be her eggs she is born with them she does not make them

Really? The embryo develops per daddy and mommy's sinful genetics.

yes and the x and y chromosome he produces in his body.

But he inherits them from sinful daddy and mommy.

x does not produce seed to make males only Y

And X is passed on to males from mom who got if from daddy and mommy. You're dead in the water.

nothing has changed...only Y makes males women do not pass on Y

X and Y makes males. Brush up on your biology. Unless you're talking of someone with down syndrome.

well, it says Ruth was a stranger...you are saying differently

Adopted stranger.

I also acknowledge the NT as authoritative.

That's your problem. You've already acknowledged it has problems.

still no evidence, I accept it by faith...

That's your problem.

He does from his mother...you are not very bright, are you?

Nothing in the NT states her lineage. Besides, you've admitted that only the father passes Israelite lineage. Also, Mary inherits all of the sins defective genes. Checkmate again.

You are dull of hearing...Eve was created without sin Just as Adam she was taken from Adam before Adam sinned...they both sinned separately...the woman was deceived into sinning the man disobeyed a direct order. These things you should know.

Sin changed Eve. Regardless, Adam would infect all of their children, boys and girls.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Welcome back everyone.

Christians are frustrated. Of all the peoples on the earth, they would think that the Jews, to whom God has entrusted the oracles, would accept Jesus as the Messiah. But no. Jewish converts have been ultra few. By and large, more than any other people, Jews have been immune to the gospel. Why? I hope that this post will answer that question.

1. God is ECHAD, one, not three in one. Christianity teaches Trinitarianism, which although it is monotheism, is a muddied monotheism. Judaism on the other hand teaches a pure and simple monotheism. Anything that comprises the oneness of God is unthinkable.
2. God is not a man. This is the nature of God, and the nature of God is unchanging. It is stated three times in the Tanakh: twice in Numbers 23:19, and a third time in Job 9:32. For something to be reiterated three times -- it must be of great importance. Christianity on the other hand, claims that Jesus is "fully God and fully man," at least in the orthodox version. The two are absolutely incompatible. Christians try to claim that "let us create man in our own image" is a reference to the triune nature of God, but in reality it is God talking to the heavenly court. Similarly, the claims of Elohim being a plural are moot -- it is more similar to the royal "we" used by the Queen.
3. The New Testament contradicts the teachings of the Tanakh/Torah. The Torah clearly teaches the following of the Law, in order to receive the blessings of prosperity and the land of Canaan. Psalm 19 states that the Law is "perfect....sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb." Yet Paul teaches that the Law brings a curse. He teaches that circumcision is nothing and keeping the Sabbath is up to the individual, rather than being necessary for the Jew. These views, that of the Tanakh and those of Paul, are utterly incompatible. The Torah is agreed upon by both Christians and Jews to be the word of God, and is therefore the measuring reed to determine what else is orthodoxy -- and it therefore determines that the NT doesn't pass muster
4. The New Testament quotes prophecy out of context (i.e. Hosea 11:1, which is about Israel, not the messiah), misquotes prophecy (i.e. Isaiah 7:14 which is rightly translated young maiden, not virgin), and even makes up prophecy out of whole cloth (such as Matthew 2:23, He shall be called a Nazarene aka someone from the city of Nazareth.)
5. Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he simply did not fulfill messianic prophecy. It makes no sense to say, "He will fulfill the rest when he comes back again." After all, anyone can claim to be the messiah and say they will fulfill the prophecies the next time around. The only way we have of determining the messiah is if they fulfill the messianic claims, all of them, and quite frankly Jesus did not; thus he failed in his attempt to be the messiah. Here are just three examples:
   • The Messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not.​
   • The Messiah will bring ALL Jews back to the Land of Israel. Jesus did not.​

main reason that they they are spiritually dead in their sins until saved and born again!

 

[Jewjitzu]

I accept it by faith I also accept Jesus lineage so that should not be a point of contention.

BTW, in neither lineage, is Jesus called out as the son of God. Only Adam.

Quite telling, newbirth. So you agree that God had nothing to do with Jesus birth since you accept the lineage as is. Nor is he adopted.

3rd Checkmate!

 

[Newbirth]

Only because you don't understand

I understand that you have no understanding

Never said otherwise. So Jesus can't be adopted either. Checkmate.

Jesus is not adopted by his mother...

Yes. And she was adopted and has a kinsman redeemer. She accepted the God of Israel.

which does not make her an Israelite...she is a stranger...

Are what? Infected? Yes, and so is Jesus.

saying that is not proof of anything...

Check the grammar on Moabites. Its masculine in form and the reason Ruth could join.

anyone can Join

I never said Jesus is God. Focus.

you made the claim that I did...

I can. You do too.

You can't, it would be a lie. I don't I just showed you the scripture which makes anyone claiming that a liar
John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Supported all of the time. Can you say Yehoshua?

yep...can you write the name of your God?

It says they are. Congregation of Israelites includes natives and converts.

you just described a mixed congregation...natives who are Israelites and converts who are alien...you just exposed your ignorance

Sure it does. Just like people become Americans.

Two different definitions of terms... Israelites are descendants of the twelve tribes of Israel. Americans are determined by multiple factors...

Well, as this rate you never will.

You cannot make a non-israelite an Israelite...you admitted that many times

I don't see Palestinians converting, do you?

you are deflecting....why are you deflecting?...You have to tell me if babies born in Israel by Palestinian parents are Israelites or not and if not why not. I didn't ask anything about converting...

Nope, if they never converted.

are you saying that converting to the Jewish religion makes one an Israelite? Which tribe? And hor does that work?

 

[Jewjitzu]

I accept it by faith I also accept Jesus lineage so that should not be a point of contention either...

BTW, the lineage in Luke, if it belongs to Mary, shows how she inherited from her dad all the way to Adam, and passed it all to Jesus. Lots of sin passed on.

God is not mentioned in this lineage.

Checkmate #4.

 

[Open Heart]

that explains your position...You consider yourself to be a Jew but agree with other nations and their God.

It's not just me saying on my own that I am a Jew. I am in fact a Jew according to Jewish law, which is the only thing that matters in this regard.

There is only one Creator, one God. Whoever worships him, worships the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.